[sathyab]

CSGibson, on Mar 19 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

If partner's double was penalty, then he has more spade stoppers for us or a very good hand outside of spades.  If it's the first, we don't need 9 running tricks, and if the second, 9 running tricks have play often enough to be effective.

If he had a spade stopper why would he not bid 3nt himself ? What most other posters are saying is that his double is "card showing" and the opener is supposed to bid 3nt with a stopper, which is exactly the opposite of what you're saying. And he has a lot of help in your suit without a stopper and you don't have a stopper either and leave the double in, you will get good at scoring up 3S X making, 3S X making 4 without looking at the table of scores behind the bidding cards.

[CSGibson]

sathyab, on Mar 19 2008, 07:09 PM, said:

CSGibson, on Mar 19 2008, 09:11 PM, said:

If partner's double was penalty, then he has more spade stoppers for us or a very good hand outside of spades.  If it's the first, we don't need 9 running tricks, and if the second, 9 running tricks have play often enough to be effective.

If he had a spade stopper why would he not bid 3nt himself ? What most other posters are saying is that his double is "card showing" and the opener is supposed to bid 3nt with a stopper, which is exactly the opposite of what you're saying. And he has a lot of help in your suit without a stopper and you don't have a stopper either and leave the double in, you will get good at scoring up 3S X making, 3S X making 4 without looking at the table of scores behind the bidding cards.

I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I'm saying. What I was trying to say is that even if partner intends his double as penalty, you should have a play for 3NT, so it is not an unreasonable bid.

As for the rest, relax, dude, you don't have to worry about me. My partnerships have done fine in judging these situations.

[benlessard]

Quote

What is this nonsense about partner having at most 2 diamonds? He wants you to bid 3N with a stopper

Well if i had 6-7 diamonds AK and a S stopper i would have bid 2Nt (wich of course doesnt show 18-19).

Partner 2nd X at the 3 level is at least giving me the option the option to pass the X a fair amount of times.

Will he X with a singleton spades ? No. Will he X with Qxx in diamonds ? I hope not.

The critical holding is ♦Qx and ♠xx. With minimal strenght i think partner should play it safe and bid 4D. With maximum strenght (very unlikely considering the bidding) i guess X is ok.


From my point of view

1D----(1S)----X------(2S)

the 2S could be quite wide ranging. From 3 pts and 4 trumps to a good 8-9. So over my 3D the overcaller is maybe tempted to bid 3S without enough security. 3S in that postion is quite a good pressure bid.

I have no problem if the X is specially designed to find a stopper (if you play a artificial 2nt for example), if so partner can easily X with a stiff spades and D support wich mean i cant rarely pass the X. But without this agreement a X at 3S after our side made 3 naturals bids is clearly keeping the penalty in the picture.

[the hog]

"Will he X with a singleton spades ? No. Will he X with Qxx in diamonds ? I hope not"

So what do you suggest he should do with say
x Axxx Qxx KJxxx
You have by-passed your most likely game if he raises D to the 4 level.

[gnasher]

Cascade, on Mar 19 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

Why not?

I'm not sure I would use the double of 2♠ for this purpose though. What would 2NT/3NT have meant?

Against double asking for a stopper there are not that many hands that would raise 1♥ to 2♥ that would be that interested in 3NT opposite a minimum strong NT hand. Perhaps opener would pass with some of the minimum 15/16 balanced hands.

They're not my methods, but I think 2NT would have shown real invitational values - about 17 or more, and double showed either 15-16 or a stronger hand without a stop. So, if you bid game here, it's one that you wouldn't have bid without the intervention.

[655321]

The_Hog, on Mar 20 2008, 12:18 AM, said:

"Will he X with a singleton spades ? No. Will he X with Qxx in diamonds ? I hope not"

So what do you suggest he should do with say You have by-passed your most likely game if he raises D to the 4 level.

x Axxx Qxx KJxxx

I don't disagree with your point, but this is a not a good hand to illustrate it.
I would never double with this hand, planning to pass 3NT. This hand should happily raise diamonds, expecting to make 5♦ most of the time, and 6♦ opposite many non-minimum 3♦ bids.

[gnasher]

CSGibson, on Mar 20 2008, 04:30 AM, said:

What I was trying to say is that even if partner intends his double as penalty, you should have a play for 3NT, so it is not an unreasonable bid.

You might be OK if partner's penalty double happens to include either DQ or a running club suit. If he's doubled for penalties because he has a singleton diamond and defensive holdings in the round suits, 3NT is quite unlikely to make.

I don't mind either of the possible interpretations of the double, but I'm certain that you can't play it as both.

[sathyab]

gnasher, on Mar 20 2008, 03:44 AM, said:

CSGibson, on Mar 20 2008, 04:30 AM, said:

What I was trying to say is that even if partner intends his double as penalty, you should have a play for 3NT, so it is not an unreasonable bid.

You might be OK if partner's penalty double happens to include either DQ or a running club suit. If he's doubled for penalties because he has a singleton diamond and defensive holdings in the round suits, 3NT is quite unlikely to make.

I don't mind either of the possible interpretations of the double, but I'm certain that you can't play it as both.

Succinctly put. That's exactly the point I was trying to make all along.