[hrothgar]

mike777, on Mar 17 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

A lot of people go to Gatlinburg and you cannot even fly there, no airport, no National events, no beaches. Do they use vacation days because of the great weather, great shopping, sightseeing?

I always heard that folks went to Gatlinburg because its virtually impossible not to walk away with scores of master points...

[mike777]

hrothgar, on Mar 17 2008, 01:03 PM, said:

mike777, on Mar 17 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

A lot of people go to Gatlinburg and you cannot even fly there, no airport, no National events, no beaches. Do they use vacation days because of the great weather, great shopping, sightseeing?

I always heard that folks went to Gatlinburg because its virtually impossible not to walk away with scores of master points...

IF so then maybe people do not go to Detroit because too few masterpoints given away and more at other Nat/tourneys?

In any case it seems there are many more reasons/excuses to not go to Gatlinburg but they seem to flock there.

[mike777]

10,544 tables I think last year in Gatlinburg and again you cannot even fly there, no airport.

[kenrexford]

Gatlinburg -- now that's a smoker-friendly site. Whether upstairs to the South end of the building or out the North entrance, smokers everywhere.

I just don't get the idea of a tournament where you cannot smoke, anyway. Playing cards is boring. Discussion of what happened right or wrong is interesting, and that happens best out with the smokers. It's like politics. Who cares what the results are? You want the play-by-play and analysis for the real fun (apparently).

Beyond that, the reason G-burg works so well, IMO, is that it is friggin' the real beginning of spring for many people. You drive/fly away from ice and snow to see redbuds and dogwoods, sleep in a cabin, walk outside to a nice bar for an after-game drink(s). Great time.

Detroit? None of that. If you did make it out to smoke, there was no one to talk to. If anyone was there, he or she was huddled with wind and snow pelting him or her and could not care less what lead to make on board 2. Horrible!!!

[barmar]

TimG, on Mar 17 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

pclayton, on Mar 17 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

I've yet to figure out why they have nationals in cold places. People want to flee places like this in March, not
use their vacation time to visit them.

The same reason they hold Summer NABCs in places like Las Vegas and New Orleans -- it's the off-season and as such they can negotiate better prices for the conference space and hotel rooms.

I don't think Vegas has an off-season. The last LV NABC was in the fall.

But for places that do have an off-season, I think ACBL does generally target them. This is why fall nationals are often in cold cities (I remember having to walk through snow at the first Philadelphia national I attended in the mid-90's).

[jdonn]

barmar, on Mar 17 2008, 01:32 PM, said:

TimG, on Mar 17 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

pclayton, on Mar 17 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

I've yet to figure out why they have nationals in cold places. People want to flee places like this in March, not
use their vacation time to visit them.

The same reason they hold Summer NABCs in places like Las Vegas and New Orleans -- it's the off-season and as such they can negotiate better prices for the conference space and hotel rooms.

I don't think Vegas has an off-season. The last LV NABC was in the fall.

Yes it does, it starts to get very very busy in December. A March NABC would be far more crowded than either summer or fall. Summer is really the offseason but I can understand wanting to avoid the heat.

[barmar]

pclayton, on Mar 17 2008, 12:53 PM, said:

There were barely any restaurants to speak of unless you got on the people mover. The hotel is in a financial district so many of the eateries were closed on weekends.

That seems to happen at lots of nationals. I guess that's where large convention centers tend to be located.

[TimG]

barmar, on Mar 17 2008, 01:32 PM, said:

But for places that do have an off-season, I think ACBL does generally target them. This is why fall nationals are often in cold cities (I remember having to walk through snow at the first Philadelphia national I attended in the mid-90's).

I think the Fall NABC would traditionally have been an oddity -- I don't imagine there is anywhere in the US that Thanksgiving Weekend is peak convention season (with the possible exception of Plymouth, MA).

That is somewhat confirmed by a list of recent and future fall NABC locations:

2004 Orlando
2005 Denver
2006 Hawaii
2007 San Francisco
2008 Boston
2009 San Diego
2010 Orlando
2011 Seattle
2012 San Francisco

[mike777]

kenrexford, on Mar 17 2008, 01:19 PM, said:

Gatlinburg -- now that's a smoker-friendly site.  Whether upstairs to the South end of the building or out the North entrance, smokers everywhere.

I just don't get the idea of a tournament where you cannot smoke, anyway.  Playing cards is boring.  Discussion of what happened right or wrong is interesting, and that happens best out with the smokers.  It's like politics.  Who cares what the results are?  You want the play-by-play and analysis for the real fun (apparently).

Beyond that, the reason G-burg works so well, IMO, is that it is friggin' the real beginning of spring for many people.  You drive/fly away from ice and snow to see redbuds and dogwoods, sleep in a cabin, walk outside to a nice bar for an after-game drink(s).  Great time.

Detroit?  None of that.  If you did make it out to smoke, there was no one to talk to.  If anyone was there, he or she was huddled with wind and snow pelting him or her and could not care less what lead to make on board 2.  Horrible!!!

geeZ Ken!

You and other posters seem to infer people go to bridge tourneys to smoke, drink booze outside and smell the flowers, and enjoy low priced food and low priced easy to get to hotels who knew.

[jtfanclub]

kenrexford, on Mar 16 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

3. At the bottom of the first down escalator, walk around a stupid circular walkway, down a straight walk to another circular walkway, and a short distance to the second down-escalator.

God, I hated that walkway. Had to walk a quarter mile to get from the People Mover to the room directly above it. The tower elevators were very poorly programmed, so if you tried to use them you were in for quite a wait.

Sorry, a bit off topic, I know.

[Mbodell]

Overall I enjoyed the nationals. I was surprised by how frequent and quick the people mover was (except for weekend mornings) and thought the venue was ok in terms of food choices (even if the food courts closed at 6pm sharp). The setup of the circular walkways was confusing and much more appealing in theory when you first see them then when you have to keep walking around them.

My main two issues were:

- bathroom facilities. There were too few on the third level ball rooms and on the fourth level they were quite far away from the playing area.

- short time between the 9am and 1pm session and huge break between the 1pm and 7:30pm sessions is not optimal planning - especially because getting lunch between sessions was tricky on weekdays because all the GM employees would be in food lines then too.

[jmc]

I had a great time in Detroit, but I agree somewhat with Ken. I don't smoke, but I drink lots of water, soda, and other beverages. It was almost impossible to go to the restroom between rounds because they were located so far from some of the playing areas. The day we were assigned clear across the renaissance ballroom was the worst. I saw one lady sprint to and back from the bathroom at a dead run.

I also thought that slow play seemed to be a bigger problem in Detroit than any other tourney in which I've been involved. Maybe because of all the delays in finding a restroom and / or smoking a cigarette?

jmc

[barmar]

Mbodell, on Mar 18 2008, 10:47 PM, said:

- short time between the 9am and 1pm session and huge break between the 1pm and 7:30pm sessions is not optimal planning - especially because getting lunch between sessions was tricky on weekdays because all the GM employees would be in food lines then too.

These times are pretty normal for nationals. It's always been tricky getting lunch between the morning and afternoon sessions; you can pretty much forget it if you need to go to the partnership desk for the afternoon session.

I suspect it boosts revenues at the concession stand, though.

[xcurt]

barmar, on Mar 17 2008, 01:32 PM, said:

I don't think Vegas has an off-season. The last LV NABC was in the fall.

The 2001 LV Fall NABC didn't run over two weekends. I remember eating Thanksgiving dinner in the hotel steakhouse. I'm pretty sure that was the second day of the Swiss and the Reisinger. Evidently the story was that bridge players don't gamble/spend enough so they wouldn't give the ACBL two weekends. So there must be some demand at that time.

[Mbodell]

barmar, on Mar 19 2008, 10:16 AM, said:

Mbodell, on Mar 18 2008, 10:47 PM, said:

- short time between the 9am and 1pm session and huge break between the 1pm and 7:30pm sessions is not optimal planning - especially because getting lunch between sessions was tricky on weekdays because all the GM employees would be in food lines then too.

These times are pretty normal for nationals. It's always been tricky getting lunch between the morning and afternoon sessions; you can pretty much forget it if you need to go to the partnership desk for the afternoon session.

I suspect it boosts revenues at the concession stand, though.

Yes, but at SF there was enough time to leave the venue and pick up something quick outside or else get something from starbucks because we were pretty much the only ones in the hotel. In Detroit this was not as easy.

[awm]

I think ACBL has a good idea by moving the nationals around the country.

There are a lot of people who know how to play bridge, but don't travel for duplicate bridge tournaments. Having a national championship "in their back yard" is an opportunity for these people to see what big tournaments are all about. The nationals are big enough to get a mention in a local newspaper. This may help to inspire some people to take up bridge, or at least to take up duplicate and/or travel to some future nationals. Remember that in addition to being the "north american championships" the nationals also provide a wide variety of newcomer-type events.

I'm sure that if the goal was just to optimize attendance, Vegas would be an extremely popular site, because it's a reasonable "destination city" while still being reasonably priced (New York for example was quite pricey by comparison). Most other spots are either not very desirable places to go, difficult to get to, or much more expensive. And bridge players do like to gamble. A lot of the bridge professionals seem to have taken up poker as a way to make extra money, and I frequently see the older crowd playing the slots.

[JoAnneM]

NABC's are scheduled 10 or more years into the future with some popular ones set into a rotating schedule - like Reno in my District 20 is on a 6-year Spring schedule. But some of the "off" cities like Detroit are "fill-in" cities just so the players in that area can experience an NABC. And, they are scheduled for off-season because those venues are very expensive, and ACBL does their best to negotiate lower hotel rates for the players. I know lower rates can sometimes be found at internet sites, but ACBL is reserving huge blocks of rooms years in advance at these hotels. Those of you who have worked at tournament planning and managing know the headaches.

Hopefully Las Vegas, which I heard is projected at over 20,000 tables, will make up for Detroit. Even Hawaii was a disappointment in table count for us because it seems when the players got there the weather was so nice they all went to the beach!!