[Winstonm]

Quote

The source of the claims makes them laughable

I'm not sure you read the quotes accurately. Russia and China were not defending their own human rights records - what they were saying is that the U.S has no moral authority to criticize because of its own human rights violations.

Now we torture, imprision without due process, and invade whom we want.

The source of the claims makes that a joke? I do not grok.

[finally17]

Post deleted because I changed my mind, I don't really want to have this debate.

Let it suffice to say that I understood the quotes and if you disagree with me, well then you disagree.

[barmar]

Winstonm, on Mar 17 2008, 09:44 PM, said:

finally17, on Mar 17 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Mar 17 2008, 07:38 PM, said:

But now there is some degree of truth in their claims - they can no longer simply be brushed aside with disdain.

I completely disagree. The source of the claims makes them laughable. Our actions can bring us to a state in which we have absolutely no legitimate stake in the discussion, and these governments reached that state long ago, and haven't left it.

I'd hate to wake you from your nap, but it's not 1958 anymore - Mao and Nikita are dead and the cold war is over. China is a "favored nation" as a trading partner, and Russia is capitalist.

Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve keeps socializing the bank losses here in the U.S.

On second thought, never mind. Go back to sleep.

The only reason China is a favored nation is because economics trumps principles. We simply can't afford not to do business with the biggest emerging market in the world. We can use economic sanctions against smaller countries, because we hold the upper hand in the trade balance. But we need China's consumers and cheap labor much more than they need our products, so we don't have much economic leverage there.

As a result, we're forced to be hypocritical: trade with them while decrying their policies.

[vuroth]

blackshoe, on Mar 16 2008, 11:39 PM, said:

barmar, on Mar 16 2008, 08:30 PM, said:

I think that the US government could respond to these allegations by pointing out that we're at war, and sometimes rights have to be trampled for the sake of security, whereas the complaints we've made about China have been regarding their actions against their own people in normal circumstances.

1. The power to declare war rests with Congress. To the best of my knowledge, Congress has not done so.

I believe this happened on January 12, 1991.