[han]

Qxx Kxxx KQxxx Q

Partner opens 2NT and the auction goes:

2NT - 3C (normal stayman)
3S - 4D
4H - 5C
6S - ???

Yes I know, this auction shouldn't really occur, but still it did. Maybe partner isn't as good as you think you are. But now, what do you bid?

[andy_h]

eek :\ Hate it when partner tortures me. From our point of view, it seemed like we were cueing for D's but 6S wtf. If he wanted to find out about more keycards he could keep cueing, or ask about trumps with 5nt or something, so I don't know how partner expects us to figure out what 6S is. From my general principles of that if I don't know what partner's bid means, I won't pass so I guess I'll bid 6NT.

Maybe he thought our 4D was a cue agreeing spades..

[inquiry]

I am sorely tempted to pass. Partner could have five spades and a club ruff may be key. Partner may not even have club Ace or King, so a suit contract is necessary. Also, partner could have bid 5NT for me to pick a slam.

But one thing is for sure, if we had any thought 4♥ showed hearts (I didn't think that), 6♠ has clarified that for us. No doubt your partner would have bid 3♥ with 4-4 in the majors and he probably bid 6♠ based upon max 2NT and desire not to have a bidding misunderstanding if he bid 5♦ (cue). HE can't re-cue bid his known ♥A.

The problem here is he took our 5♣ cue bid as confirming spade I fear. In final analysis, I am going to bid 6NT, despite several good reasons to pass. The reason I am bidding 6NT is that partners six spade bid can not be made unless he "knows" we have a fit, and in fact, we have not shown a spade fit. So he is counting on us to deliver spade suport. But we really never wanted to show spade support. In fact, from our auction we could, in theory, have a spade singleton or void. So even if partner held AKJxx he could not place the contract in 6♠ confidently unless he took a different view of our first bids. I am not going to let partner languish in 6S with possible Kxxx, KJxx, Axxx, AJxx, or AKxx where we might have a long spade loser or even two spade losers.

If 6♠ is right, I will apologize profusely. But this auction just doesn't make sense to me, so seems sensible to bid on to avoid the likely 4-3 fit here at the six level.

[655321]

6NT always.

With no UI, I would probably just make the safety play of 6NT.

If partner has described 4♦ as 'showing a 4 card heart suit and 5+ diamonds', still 6NT.
But I suspect partner has described 4♦ as a cue bid agreeing spades... probably I can still bid 6NT, but not sure what a director or committee would have to say here.

[Zelandakh]

What can 6♠ be here besides suggesting it as a contract on the way to 6NT? That said, the 'rule' is to bid 6NT whenever a slam auction gets muddled. The weaker my partner the more likely I am to be passing.


(-: Zel :-)


Edit: oops just noticed this is adv-exp forum, so you can safely disregard this post.

[FrancesHinden]

Isn't this a "do you trust partner" question?

If I'm playing with someone where I haven't discussed this sequences, then partner thought 4D was a cue for spades and I bid 6NT.

If I am confident that partner knows that 4D was natural (and I would have bid 4H to agree spades) then I pass, I have a pretty good spade holding in context, maybe partner has

AKJ10
AQx
Ax
Kxxx

[gnasher]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 10 2008, 12:58 PM, said:

If I'm playing with someone where I haven't discussed this sequences, then partner thought 4D was a cue for spades and I bid 6NT.

If I am confident that partner knows that 4D was natural (and I would have bid 4H to agree spades) then I pass, I have a pretty good spade holding in context

Me too.

[kenrexford]

Pass.

[pclayton]

Pass.

[Codo]

easy pass.
The 4-3 fit can be better, even if he understood 4 Diamond wrong.
He may have a 5 card spade suit he tried to show.

There are reasons to play in spades and I would be really annoyed if my pd takes us from our 5-3 fit to 6 NT with his 3451 hand.

[han]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 10 2008, 06:58 AM, said:

Isn't this a "do you trust partner" question?

If I'm playing with someone where I haven't discussed this sequences, then partner thought 4D was a cue for spades and I bid 6NT.

If I am confident that partner knows that 4D was natural (and I would have bid 4H to agree spades) then I pass...

Yes it is a "do you trust partner" question, and I think you got it exactly right.

[ArtK78]

Clear pass.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Mar 10 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

People really pass lol?? It's 100 that partner thought you were cuebidding for spades.

Even if your system file says that 4♦ is natural?

[FrancesHinden]

Jlall, on Mar 10 2008, 07:19 PM, said:

gnasher, on Mar 10 2008, 01:02 PM, said:

Jlall, on Mar 10 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

People really pass lol?? It's 100 that partner thought you were cuebidding for spades.

Even if your system file says that 4♦ is natural?

Yes, it's so amazing to me that people consistently act like idiots in posts like this. If you would really pass this at the table with your favorite partner then that is very LOL to me, and very losing bridge. I'm sure you win your post mortems though.

I don't _have_ auctions like this with my favourite partner I am pleased to say. We save these sorts of discussions (what would 6S have meant?) for when we are not at the table.

And I couldn't have exactly this auction, because I don't play these methods; in my 2NT methods I can't have a 4-card major and a longer minor; but if I did play these methods and I knew I played these methods I would trust partner that 'jumps to slam' are to play.

I have been playing with my 'favourite partners' for over 15 years and we never have this type of second-round-of-the-auction system screw-up. Really.

I fully agree that 'in the system file' is not the same as 'partner knows what 4D means' by the way!

(my partnerships misbid all the time of course and have frequent judgement screwups and disagreements about what we ought to have bid, but that's different to a straight disagreement about what a bid means)

[ArtK78]

I really don't expect partner to have the hand given as an example hand. But I do expect partner to have at least 5 spades.

Recently, I have seen some players who I respect open 2NT with good 5 card major suits even when not playing Puppet Stayman. A very good player I have been playing with online recently opened 1NT holding AQT9xx of hearts.

So, if the bidding seems strange, maybe it is because we are assuming that partner cannot hold a good 5 or 6 card suit. If he can (and that is what seems likely to me), then 6S is likely to be the best spot.

[han]

Hopefully those who know me realize that this was not a partner with whom I have anything close to a system file (which doesn't mean that I don't enjoy playing with him). I bet Justin can guess partner's name from the auction.

[gnasher]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 10 2008, 07:37 PM, said:

I fully agree that 'in the system file' is not the same as 'partner knows what 4D means' by the way!

Well it should be. If a partnership is serious enough to have a system file, each partner should be serious enough to know what's in it, or honest enough to warn their partner that they don't.