Fourth Seat Decision
#2
Posted 2008-March-03, 01:35
#3
Posted 2008-March-03, 02:23
George Carlin
#4
Posted 2008-March-03, 02:24
gwnn, on Mar 3 2008, 01:23 AM, said:
Partner is expert, opponents are not.
#5
Posted 2008-March-03, 02:25
what does expert partner open on?
what do nonexpert opps open on?
George Carlin
#6
Posted 2008-March-03, 02:53
I'm tempted by 2[H] as it might buy the contract, buy I'm afraid I'll go overboard.
#7
Posted 2008-March-03, 04:13
gwnn, on Mar 3 2008, 03:23 AM, said:
Amen. There are certain situations in which I wouldn't dream of passing this hand out, or virtually any hand unless I had so little I was sure the opponents had made a mistake.
#8
Posted 2008-March-03, 10:59
Harald
#9
Posted 2008-March-03, 11:33
I'd probably open this 2♥ in all honesty. Many good things can happen that will create a plus score for us. It could go all pass, or we could pick up a plus defending. By passing, you are condemning yourself to whatever the field is doing not only in your seat, but in other seats as well.
#10
Posted 2008-March-03, 11:39
Give me a 6 card Spade suit and I'd be much more likely to bid
#11
Posted 2008-March-03, 23:53
pclayton, on Mar 4 2008, 12:33 AM, said:
I'd probably open this 2♥ in all honesty. Many good things can happen that will create a plus score for us. It could go all pass, or we could pick up a plus defending. By passing, you are condemning yourself to whatever the field is doing not only in your seat, but in other seats as well.
2H in 4th seat is a far better hand than this for most players. You will not make a game unless your pd has 3 Aces and she can't have that. A 4th seat 2 H opening shows not a weak 2, but about 8 tricks for most people. Who plays weak 2s in 4th seat?
#12
Posted 2008-March-03, 23:56
The_Hog, on Mar 4 2008, 12:53 AM, said:
I play it as about 10-12, never ever heard of anybody playing 2H as 8 tricks but then, I haven't met most people yet.
- hrothgar
#13
Posted 2008-March-04, 02:48
han, on Mar 4 2008, 06:56 AM, said:
Playing it as eight tricks is more common in countries where Acol two-bids used to be the norm - when people switched to weak twos in first, second and third, they sometimes left the fourth-seat openings unchanged.
#15
Posted 2008-March-04, 10:45
gnasher, on Mar 4 2008, 03:48 AM, said:
han, on Mar 4 2008, 06:56 AM, said:
Playing it as eight tricks is more common in countries where Acol two-bids used to be the norm - when people switched to weak twos in first, second and third, they sometimes left the fourth-seat openings unchanged.
Weren't strong 2-bids the norm everywhere?
I'm going to poll some Dutch players to see if anybody still plays the 4th seat 2M as 8 tricks.
- hrothgar
#16
Posted 2008-March-04, 10:53
han, on Mar 3 2008, 09:56 PM, said:
The_Hog, on Mar 4 2008, 12:53 AM, said:
I play it as about 10-12, never ever heard of anybody playing 2H as 8 tricks but then, I haven't met most people yet.
Same here. I hate my honor dispersion but the hand fits the description otherwise.
I know Meyerson opens 2♥ here. C'mon dude, STEP UP.
#17
Posted 2008-March-04, 13:04
#18
Posted 2008-March-04, 14:03
pclayton, on Mar 4 2008, 11:53 AM, said:
I figured that my preferences were so well known that there was no need to comment.
Sure, I'll bid 2♥. My view is that opening 2♥ should be the worst possible hand with a six-card heart suit where you would open in fourth chair. With a good hand, why not keep the auction low to explore for game/slam? With a bad hand, why give the opponents an easy overcall at the one level?
While it's certainly possible that the opponents might have a spade fit and go plus when I open 2♥ on this hand, they will have to get into the auction with two passed hands at the two-level. It's rather dangerous to overcall 2♠ when my partner has a good description of my hand and a penalty double available and I'd be surprised if many passed hands are really well-suited to this action.
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#19
Posted 2008-March-04, 14:40
han, on Mar 4 2008, 05:45 PM, said:
Yes, but weren't they different? As I understand it, in Goren and Culbertson two-bids were game-forcing, whereas in British Acol they're a one-round force, and in some other British styles they were strong but non-forcing. There's more reason to retain an almost useless agreement than a completely useless one.
Quote
Hmm. I'm not sure that I want my assertions tested with real research. What if it turns out to have been a gross overgeneralisation? I was, in fact, thinking mainly of the UK and Ireland, so what I said was a bit of an overbid.
According to this thread:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.games...040bfe46b531559
the idea of playing weak twos in the first three positions but Acol twos in fourth originated with S J Simon.
#20
Posted 2008-March-04, 21:41