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West North East South
Pass Pass 3♣ Dbl
Pass 3♥ Pass ?
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holy cow
#1
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Posted 2008-February-24, 00:28
West North East South
Pass Pass 3♣ Dbl
Pass 3♥ Pass ?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#2
- Under bidder
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Posted 2008-February-24, 00:32
I think I would have bid 4NT over 3C. On the other hand, we need more than one useful card from partner and even 4NT is not safe. Perhaps it is best to just bid 3NT now and give up on slam.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#3
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Posted 2008-February-24, 00:41
Any strong continuation I have sounds like a heart raise. Given that I doubled initially, I feel like the only bid to make now is 3N.
#4
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Posted 2008-February-24, 00:43
What is 4nt over 3♣? Pick a slam or pass?
fun hands lately
fun hands lately
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#5
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Posted 2008-February-24, 00:50
I don't see why a cue-bid now wouldn't suggest a strong hand needing more information. That is what it would mean on a similar auction at a lower level.
(1♣) Dbl (Pass) 1♥
(Pass) 2♣ ...
Of course this may turn out to be an advanced cue if hearts are subsequently raised.
(1♣) Dbl (Pass) 1♥
(Pass) 2♣ ...
Of course this may turn out to be an advanced cue if hearts are subsequently raised.
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#6
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Posted 2008-February-24, 00:56
jillybean2, on Feb 24 2008, 07:43 PM, said:
What is 4nt over 3♣? Pick a slam or pass?
fun hands lately
fun hands lately
Over 3Major the standard is for 4NT to show the minors.
I am not sure there is a standard over 3minor.
Personally I prefer to use a cue-bid to show a two suiter so:
(3Major) 4Major = both minors
(3minor) 4minor = both majors
This frees up 4NT for some other purpose which could be a hand too strong for 3NT. We actually use 4NT as an ace ask for a hand (usually single suited) that would want to play slam opposite an ace. Both of these treatments and any other that is likely to be useful for 4NT are relatively infrequent and would definitely need advanced partnership discussion.
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#7
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Posted 2008-February-24, 02:42
3NT.
An underbid, but partner may
still bid 4H, in which case I will
know, that we have a fit.
With kind regards
Marlowe
An underbid, but partner may
still bid 4H, in which case I will
know, that we have a fit.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#8
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Nuclear power
Posted 2008-February-25, 02:34
Tough one. I would bid only 3NT at this point. If partner bids 4♥, I will bid 5♥.
#9
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Posted 2008-February-25, 05:34
Agree with gerben.
#10
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Posted 2008-February-28, 13:51
3NT seems crazy to me. Although I'm hard pressed to offer a (much) better bid.
4♣
4♣
Kevin Fay
#11
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Posted 2008-February-28, 13:58
We've discussed 4N as natural over 4m. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be natural over 3m either (or a weak 2♦ for that matter).
Having doubled, I'm endplayed into 4♣ but I have no idea what I'm going to do from here on out.
Having doubled, I'm endplayed into 4♣ but I have no idea what I'm going to do from here on out.
"Phil" on BBO
#12
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Posted 2008-February-28, 14:49
As an aside...
I really really like 3♦ as a Herbert Negative after 3♣-X-P-?
I'm willing to play 3NT or 4♦ on the diamond-oriented hands to gain the ability to distinguish "Oh Crap 3♥!" from "Better Play It Safe 3♥." This also removes the need for "Oh Crap 4♥."
I really really like 3♦ as a Herbert Negative after 3♣-X-P-?
I'm willing to play 3NT or 4♦ on the diamond-oriented hands to gain the ability to distinguish "Oh Crap 3♥!" from "Better Play It Safe 3♥." This also removes the need for "Oh Crap 4♥."
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
#13
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Posted 2008-February-28, 15:55
kenrexford, on Feb 28 2008, 09:49 PM, said:
As an aside...
I really really like 3♦ as a Herbert Negative after 3♣-X-P-?
I'm willing to play 3NT or 4♦ on the diamond-oriented hands to gain the ability to distinguish "Oh Crap 3♥!" from "Better Play It Safe 3♥." This also removes the need for "Oh Crap 4♥."
I really really like 3♦ as a Herbert Negative after 3♣-X-P-?
I'm willing to play 3NT or 4♦ on the diamond-oriented hands to gain the ability to distinguish "Oh Crap 3♥!" from "Better Play It Safe 3♥." This also removes the need for "Oh Crap 4♥."
So do I - I've played that in my last two longstanding partnerships.
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
#14
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Posted 2008-February-28, 17:09
I think I'll just bid 3N now.
Yes, it is perhaps a woeful underbid, but 4N would be (correctly) understood as keycard. A cue bid merely postpones the impossible choices. I mean, what are we doing after 4♣ begets 4♥, as it will on many many hands?
I take comfort in the fact that we need a pretty good hand over there to make slam. If we do have a slam, it is more likely to be in notrump than in hearts (by a wide margin) and I just don't know how I'm getting there when I want to be there and staying out when we have no play. I have, I think, shown a pretty good hand (I'd say a 23+ hand) via double and 3N, but he probably can't picture it as this good.
BTW, I agree that it would be nice to have been able to bid a natural 4N, but I wouldn't spring it on the average B/I/advanced partner wo discussion, and maybe not an expert either
Yes, it is perhaps a woeful underbid, but 4N would be (correctly) understood as keycard. A cue bid merely postpones the impossible choices. I mean, what are we doing after 4♣ begets 4♥, as it will on many many hands?
I take comfort in the fact that we need a pretty good hand over there to make slam. If we do have a slam, it is more likely to be in notrump than in hearts (by a wide margin) and I just don't know how I'm getting there when I want to be there and staying out when we have no play. I have, I think, shown a pretty good hand (I'd say a 23+ hand) via double and 3N, but he probably can't picture it as this good.
BTW, I agree that it would be nice to have been able to bid a natural 4N, but I wouldn't spring it on the average B/I/advanced partner wo discussion, and maybe not an expert either
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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