[calabres]

The never ending problem of ALLOW Undo, DONT ALLOW Undo.

Im 100% for tournaments with UNDOS allowed.
Lots of reasons can explain a misclick......not necessary to mention them.

My question is if there is a way to improve BBO software to avoid them.

My idea is that when a player click on a card, instead of the card will be imediatly played, it will be separated for a few seconds and after the player confirm the play or change it clicking in another card.

I dont know if its easy or not to upgrade the software for this option or a similar one, but if yes it will definitivly will solve this problem that so often appear in tournaments.

I love this game.
I love BBO.
I love my UNIBRIDGE CLUB, the world class club for online bridge play.

[matmat]

if i understand your suggestion correctly, i think a lot of people would find a solution like this absolutely infuriating.

First of all, it would slow down the game for everyone. Secondly, having just had a big fight with vista (which asks me to confirm everything and anything i try to do) the concept of having to verify your click on every card or bid sounds AWFUL. how often do legitimate misclicks happen? For myself, I misclick maybe once every 20 hands? 30? maybe more, i don't really keep track. but that's 300 or more correct clicks for every misclick. it would be unfathomable for me to have to confirm every single one of those.

one thing that might be doable is to make it necessary to double click a card to play it, but again, from experience, I have had accidental double clicks at times, so not sure that would help the problem.

[DrTodd13]

This is the 4 millionth time this has been suggested. Some online bridge systems allow the option of single click or something like you suggest. People find the "confirm" option so tedious that they turn it off. In my experience, I'd estimate that 90% of time people ask for undos illegitimate reason. If you want to minimize undos, have people concentrate and become ethical and stop asking for illegitimate undos.

[calabres]

Well

As I sugested, maybe another option can be done.

I let the problem for software experts.

[sceptic]

Ban all undos, that way most of the careless undos and consequences, will teach people to concentrate more as I think that is the reason for most undo requests, lack of concentration while playing on the net, it will help keep people from the forums when they should be playing bridge

[helene_t]

DrTodd13, on Feb 17 2008, 06:06 AM, said:

have people concentrate and become ethical

I think you should bring this proposal of making people become ethical to the attention of a broader audience. It might solve some problems outside bridge as well.

Sorry for the silly remark, just couldn't resist

[finally17]

I would not mind an "are you sure" prompt about bids in particular, for a variety of reasons, and it wouldn't waste so much time. This could be made an optional user chosen preference

The solution I would like to see for cardplay (and for bidding actually) is an improved keyboard entry system. I sincerely doubt anyone (basically) uses the system as it exists, even the most die-hard of mouse avoiders (and I can be close at times). But it doesn't seem like it would be hard to develop a more workable system. One possible implementation would be similar to how key-command directed chat is implemented, have the user define suit by typing ctrl-(c/d/h/s), which would open a "cardplay" box similar to the chat box, and then define value by entering 2-9, etc into this box.

Note: while related to the misclicks question, I really want the improved keyboard entry just for its own sake.

[glen]

This proposal just matches the Vista paradigm. You click on a card. A pop-up asks "Are you sure you want to play this card? To continue click Play" with buttons "Play", "Cancel", and "Quit Bridge".

Using the ideas of the full disclosure cc, some pop-ups might be:

1) "Are you sure you want to play this card, as it gives a ruff-n-sluff? To continue click Ouch" with buttons "Ouch", "Escape", and "Pay $1 for GIB to play my hand".

2) "Are you sure you want to play this card, as another card will set the contract? To continue click no-set" with buttons "No Set", "Set the Contract", and "Play card and say lol"

3) "Are you sure you want to play this card, as it does not match your carding agreements. To continue click Confuse Partner" with buttons "Confuse Partner", "Wait another card before confusing partner", and "Pay $10 for online version of Lawrence book"

[TimG]

To help with misclicks when playing cards, the software could allow a card to be detached from the hand and played when placed in the middle of the table. Something similar, though I don't knew exactly what, could be done for the auction.

[Elianna]

Another way of sorting out acceptable undos and nonacceptable undos might be to have a text-entry box on the undo request, as in on the claim box?

Of course, that wouldn't stop people from writing in "misclick" when it's not.

Maybe they would have to enter what card/bid they want to change it to?

This might take a while, so maybe when the person clicks on the undo button it freezes the next player while the requesting person is typing in the required info.

[mrdct]

I'm not sure if it's been suggested before, but how about "drag and drop" to play a card whereby you click on your card and then drag it to the table and then release it. It won't eliminate all "misclicks" but I expect that a lot will be noticed before the erroneous card is released and can be safely returned to hand. This action would also make the play a little bit more like f2f bridge where you need to pull cards out of your hand and place them on the table.

This should only be an option and played should still be able to single-click a la the curretn method if they so elect.

A common misclick that I make is on opening lead where BBO re-sorts my hand just as I'm about to click on my actual lead and makes me lead something else. Perhaps a confirmation box for opening lead only would be useful. It would also align well with f2f bridge where, in many jurisdictions, opening leads are required to be made face down and then not revealed until partner says OK.

[Ant590]

I use the keyboard entry... I think it's intuitive apart from when you're typing a chat message involving one of the letters AKQJT and find that you have played the corresponding card by accident.

I don't know how I would have coped operating vugraph with mouse entry!

[TimG]

TimG, on Feb 17 2008, 01:16 PM, said:

To help with misclicks when playing cards, the software could allow a card to be detached from the hand and played when placed in the middle of the table. Something similar, though I don't knew exactly what, could be done for the auction.

After reading this thread, I was much more aware of the fact that a card is raised when the mouse is over it. To me, this seems as good as the drag and drop I had suggested (in less elegant terms).

Still, something similar for the bidding box would be good, IMO.

[finally17]

Ant590, on Feb 18 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

apart from when you're typing a chat message involving one of the letters AKQJT and find that you have played the corresponding card by accident.

I vastly prefer keyboard entry...but this is the problem I have with it...and this problem only exists (no offense to whoever did it) because it's implemented poorly. There are plenty of ways it could have been implemented that wouldn't cause this.

[hrothgar]

What if we added a talking paper clip that could provide assistance in a cheery, non threatening way?

[matmat]

hrothgar, on Feb 18 2008, 03:31 PM, said:

What if we added a talking paper clip that could provide assistance in a cheery, non threatening way?

that would be very useful.

[mr1303]

I would end up throwing something at my computer!

That paperclip was without doubt the MOST annoying thing I have ever experienced on a computer.

[finally17]

mr1303, on Feb 18 2008, 04:54 PM, said:

I would end up throwing something at my computer!

That paperclip was without doubt the MOST annoying thing I have ever experienced on a computer.

Clearly you haven't experienced the TRUE FLAVOR of microsoft. That paper clip was nothing compared to some things I could recount.

Try for instance IE7 beta, which when removed, deleted some very very very necessary .dlls. IE wouldn't run without these .dlls, explorer wouldn't run without these .dlls, and worst yet, System Restore, the very program that's made to fix these sorts of problems, would not run without these .dlls.

I know, relatively, a lot, and it took me several hours of serious frustration to fix something that Microsoft never should have let happen. Had I known just a little bit less, it would have required a full XP reinstall, and for plenty of folks who couldn't handle this, a couple hundred bucks and a couple of days at their local computer shop.

All because an Internet Explorer uninstall deleted something that XP absolutely needed to run.

[jillybean]

It aint broke, dont fix it.

What do these players wanting undo's do with cards misplayed at the club?