[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     -     1♠
 Pass  4♠    Dbl   Pass
 Pass  Pass  


Who needs a wake up call here?

[TylerE]

W forgot to bid 3♥.
E should bid 4N (takeout), not X (Penalty)

[Echognome]

1. High level decisions are often difficult.

2. Double is takeout not penalty (albeit the higher the level, the more likely it might be offshape). 4NT should be two places to play.

3. West needs to show his six card suit opposite a takeout double. Plain and simple.

[gwnn]

W did very well not to bid 3♥.

W did not do equally well to pass the double. A good way to think of these situations is "pass wins if both 4♠ and 5♥ go down". But it's pretty unlikely, because partner is short in spades and promises length in hearts, so they have a bunch of spades and we've got a bunch of hearts.

It's important to understand the nature of East's second double, which is tentatively takeout. It should never be made on, say, a balanced 16 count with AKT in spades. If partner has a 5-5, or a concentrated 5-4, or a 6 card suit (like now), they should usually pull the double.

[mikeh]

West.

West's 1st pass was normal, and I would be very critical of any other action.

East's double was normal, and I would be very critical of any other action.

West's second pass was abysmal.

East showed a good hand, with support for the unbid suits: if East had a pure one-suiter, he should bid it, and with a two-suiter, bid 4N (not showing 'the minors' but showing 'any two suits')

West can deduce the stiff (or void) spade opposite, so the Qx is NEVER a defensive trick, and partner is ruffing either one or both of his spade 'losers'.

More importantly, West's heart length is negative defence (East's high hearts are likely to be ruffed) and positive offence. I think I'd pull without the diamond Ace, but that would be a pull out of fear. As it is, I pull because not only am I concerned about my lack of defence, but I also fear missing a 5 level making contract.

West 100%.

[P_Marlowe]

If there is one, it is West, but I would
say, it is also to a large degree bad luck.

East did well to make the double.
The only problem with the call is, that it is
not 100% for t/o, it shows convertible values,
which East has, but East could also hold a
strong bal. hand.

Given the 6 card suit West should bid 5H,
but I would not condem the pass, espesially
given the Ace and the Queen of spade.

Move on, ... happens.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Mbodell]

Does everyone play that the double of 4♠ by West is TO? Most partnership agreements of pairs near me play take out doubles only through 3♠ or 4♦. I do play this as TO on the first turn in a couple of my partnerships, but in live bridge near me this, at least as appears on their cc, is non-standard.

[mikeh]

Mbodell, on Feb 19 2008, 06:30 PM, said:

Does everyone play that the double of 4♠ by West is TO? Most partnership agreements of pairs near me play take out doubles only through 3♠ or 4♦. I do play this as TO on the first turn in a couple of my partnerships, but in live bridge near me this, at least as appears on their cc, is non-standard.

I think you meant 'by east': it is east who doubles 4♠.

As I wrote earlier, my sense of expert treatment of this double is that it is card-showing: a hand short in spades, that expects to beat 4♠ a trick or two opposite a flat weak hand (altho a set is never assured since the opps may be wildly distributional) and also offers a play (or a cheaper alternative to unsuccessfully defending 4♠) opposite a hand on which west chooses to pull.. and west is expected to pull with shape..unless (which never happens to me) the shape includes a spade stack.

I think this is standard amongst most good players, and would be surprised to hear differently.

[Mbodell]

OK, but trade the 4♥ and the 4♣ and 5♥ is likely down 1 and 4♠x is likely also down 1, right?

[the hog]

The bidding:
West's first pass is perfect; the double is correct and is for takeout, not penalties. West's second pass is very poor. She has a clear 5H bid.

[FrancesHinden]

I second everything mikeh said.

[andy_h]

mikeh, on Feb 19 2008, 05:28 PM, said:

West.

West's 1st pass was normal, and I would be very critical of any other action.

East's double was normal, and I would be very critical of any other action.

West's second pass was abysmal.

East showed a good hand, with support for the unbid suits: if East had a pure one-suiter, he should bid it, and with a two-suiter, bid 4N (not showing 'the minors' but showing 'any two suits')

West can deduce the stiff (or void) spade opposite, so the Qx is NEVER a defensive trick, and partner is ruffing either one or both of his spade 'losers'.

More importantly, West's heart length is negative defence (East's high hearts are likely to be ruffed) and positive offence. I think I'd pull without the diamond Ace, but that would be a pull out of fear. As it is, I pull because not only am I concerned about my lack of defence, but I also fear missing a 5 level making contract.

West 100%.

Agree

[Cascade]

TylerE, on Feb 20 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

W forgot to bid 3♥.

Yuk

Quote

E should bid 4N (takeout), not X (Penalty)

I think double is takeout not penalty.

You will hardly ever have a true penalty double on this auction.

[whereagles]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 20 2008, 06:12 AM, said:

I second everything mikeh said.

I disagree with everything mikeh said. I didn't even read it, but I disagree