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Well, Yes, there is a downside to bidding 2S, and that is that when you play a C system, the 1C opener could have any number of S; as Luis points out, is 2S based on 3,4, or5+.
Having said this, without an agreement that 2N is scrambling, what do you do?
I have a strong belief that 2N should hardly ever be to play; (only is a sequence where opener bids 1N with a minimum and responder raises to 2). It makes little sense to contract for EXACTLY 8 tricks, hence I like scrambling in more and more situations. It is for this reason that Richard may well be right if 2N by opener here would be forcing.
What to bid...? ...playing strong club system
#21
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Posted 2004-March-01, 15:39
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#22
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Posted 2004-March-01, 15:56
hrothgar, on Mar 2 2004, 08:32 AM, said:
The_Hog, on Mar 2 2004, 12:21 AM, said:
Interesting post. This really depends on your partnership understanding of the negative X.
I really like 2N scrambling here, IF we have that partnership understanding. If not, I bid 2S. I doubt this will be a 3-3 fit, and even then the super Moyse may play well.
Ron
I really like 2N scrambling here, IF we have that partnership understanding. If not, I bid 2S. I doubt this will be a 3-3 fit, and even then the super Moyse may play well.
Ron
Hi Ron
Just wanted to make sure that we are on the same page here:
Here is my understanding of competitive bidding in MOSCITO
Following the auction
1C - (Z) - Double - (Pass), where 1N <= Z <= 2S
Game Forcing Bids by the 1C Opener:
Jump Shift = Strong, Natural and Forcing
Cue Bid = At least 5/5 shape
2NT = Values with no clear bid
Non-game forcing bids by the Strong Club opener:
New suits = Natural (or at least tolerance) and non-forcing
I need to look up the notes as it is a while since I have played Moscito, Richard, but I think you are right. As I stated in my previous post, it makes little sense to try and stop on sixpence, (whoops, sorry read a "dime" in American speak). So it makes sense that 2N by opener should be forcing.
Incidentally, I always answer these questions based on what I think most people play. I doubt very much whether most would have either a "scrambling" 2N agreement. or have the agreement that 2N is forcing, however sound that may well be.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#23
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Posted 2004-March-01, 18:09
Ofcourse, IF I have a scrambling 2NT agreement, I'll use it. But without any special agreements, I thing 2♠ should be bid here...
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Posted 2004-March-02, 03:59
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Hi all!
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Before to comment I will make one clarification, because I don't like to make decisions based on dreg of coffee.1♣*-(2♥)-X**-(P)
?
* Modified Precision: 16+any/17+bal
**Negative: 4-6 any but trap pass/7+ without other free positive bid
Note: If X show support in unbid suits (mainly ♠) it must be alerted as "take out", if in 2 places how Ben suggest, then as "bi" dbl (yes, such convention exist).
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I am sorry but will repeat again: Bidding must be based on list of wining contracts priority and must be game, not score oriented. To bid reasonably after 2 level intervention you need convention(s) and sacrificing natural meaning of at least one of bids. Normally such bid at 2 level is 2NT. I am really wonder why so many experts even didn't mention about such simple convention like lebensohl? The only one was Ben, thanks to him, who mention about 2NT scrambling. Ben, 2NT scramling is good for hand in example, but bad for lot of GF hands - the reason why people play lebensohl, not scrambling. To pass with any semi positive hand is not a good idea in precision Ben, exlude trap pass, becuase possible preempt continuations and follow lack of any ideas about at least level of possible contracts.My choice: 2NT lebensohl
About bidding after opps intervention after unclear or multi bid I prefer to play similar to meta or raptor structure. Because of successful experience I will describe raptor structure:
1♣*-(2♥)-?
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X: 5+hcp, bal/sbal, optional
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2♠: nf, 5+♠
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2NT:, rf, 4+♠, unbalanced
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3♣/♦: nf, inv, (5)6+♣/♦
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3♥: gf, deny 4♠, (2)1-♥
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3♠/4♣/♦: gf, 6+ suit
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3NT: To play, 5+/4+-4+ minors, stopper ♥
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4♥: slam try, short ♥, 5+-5+minors
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4NT: slam try, 5-5+minors, deny shortness ♥
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Misho
MishoVnBg