[jocdelevat]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1♣
 Pass  1NT   Pass  2♣
 Pass  3NT   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

my pard is a pickup pard with advanced level. We play SAYC basic no other convetions.
I gamble to 3nt after his rebid of clubs and I received the criticism that we could get to 5c.
I don't understand how to get to 5c when my response 1nt 6-9hcp no major and his response 2c are both weak responses.
He said I should have bid 3c after 2c. I think right bid is pass.
Do you agree with that?
I ask why he didn't open 1nt and he reply no good stops in al suits. I thought you can open 1nt withhout to have stops in all 4 suits if is the right range and balanced.
Do you agreee with 1c opening by my pard?

[han]

Sorry to say but everything is wrong here.

The south hand is balanced and should be sold as a balanced hand. Either you open 1NT to show 15-17 or you open 1C and rebid 2NT showing 18-19 (my choice).

The 1NT bid by the north hand was normal (so ok, not everything was wrong) but 3NT is crazy, and I mean that in the best possible way from one crazy bidder to another. This auction simply does not exist, there is no hand that first just bids 1NT and then jumps to game after 2C. If 2C improved your hand then you can bid 2NT or 3C.

Finally, 5C seems like a very poor contract. Worse than 3NT which has some chances.

[vuroth]

Instructive. I find myself really pondering whether 2♣ is the right rebid for South, and how the partnership can deduce they're sitting on 26 points. It seems like a tough proposition.

If south opens 1NT, suddenly the whole thing seems so much easier!

[helene_t]

Incedently, S does have stoppers in all suits, but that's irrelevant. With that shape and strength, p must always open 1NT (or open 1♣ and rebid 2N if he thinks it's an 18-count as Han suggests.

Over 2♣ you can pass or maybe bid 3♣.

[skjaeran]

That south hand is closer to 19 points than 17 in value.

[655321]

helene_t, on Feb 12 2008, 02:19 PM, said:

Incedently, S does have stoppers in all suits, but that's irrelevant. With that shape and strength, p must always open 1NT (or open 1♣ and rebid 2N if he thinks it's an 18-count as Han suggests.

Over 2♣ you can pass or maybe bid 3♣.

Indecently or incidentally?

[matmat]

dang... that looks more like a strong club auction to me...

1c 16+ any shape
1n 8+, balanced
2c clubs
3n ignoring club fit, having wrongsided NT already anyway, hoping Ms stoppers good anyway.


1n- 2n;
3n

1c-1d;
2n-3c;
3d-3s;
3n-p

[Cascade]

1. Definitely open 1NT even without a good stopper in a side suit.

2. The South hand is a 1NT opening or if you want to upgrade a jump 2NT rebid (I wouldn't upgrade but I understand those that would)

3. After a 1NT opening it is very difficult to get to 5♣

4. Even after a 1♣ opening and a jump 2NT rebid it is hard to get to 5♣ with only four clubs and a balanced hand

5. On these hands 3NT is a much better contract than 5♣

[FrancesHinden]

1. Always open 1NT on a balanced hand in range whether or not you have every suit stopped.


2. The South hand is too good to open a 15-17 1NT. Open 1C and rebid 2NT.

3. After 1C - 1NT South has a raise to either 2NT or possibly 3NT depending on mood as the known club fit improves things slightly (in old-fashioned Acol-land 1C - 1NT is more like 8-10, but that isn't true in prepared-minor-land).

4. North will raise 2NT to 3NT. This is a poor contract but has some play; 5C is an extremely poor contract with less play.

North's bid over 2C is crazy. Opener has shown a minimum hand with long clubs.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 South has a 1NT opener
#2 the 1 NT response, showed length in the minor,
i.e. opener knows that he has a 8 card fit
In theory 1 Neven T showes 4333 with 4 clubs, but
1 NT with your hand is fine as well, ... 1D is an option
#3 I dont like the 3NT bid, it is an over bid, if you want to
invite to game, bid 3C
You know you have a 9 card fit, show it to partner
#4 I dont see, why either North or South should be
interested in 5C, both are bal.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[vuroth]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 13 2008, 04:27 AM, said:

Opener has shown a minimum hand with long clubs.

What's the range on the 2♣ bid? Would you really jump to 3♣ with 17, knowing partner might only have 6?

[kenrexford]

IMO, the auction should be as follows:

1♣-P-1NT-P-3NT.

This may seem odd, but it brings up an interesting query.

I am assuming that most people play that 1NT after a 1♣ opening shows about 8-11 HCP's, with a temporizing 1♦ response on a garbage balanced hand. Most CC's show "8-11" these days, but do people really mean what they say?

If they and you do play "8-11," then Opener's 17+ (18) plus 8-11 means 25+ to 28+, meaning 3NT. Easy game.

Here's the rub. Everyone seems to want to bid 1♣-P-1NT-P-2NT as 18-19 (or 17+). Then, Responder always bids 3NT. What is the sense to this? Just bid 3NT as Opener and get it over with.

So, if Opener should bid 3NT whenever he does have 17+ ro 19- (19- now added because we all know about 2NT openers also shrinking these days), then what the heck should 2NT mean now?

It seems that a 2NT rebid in this sequence should have a more useful message than "please bid 3NT partner." Maybe 2NT should be a mini-gambling type of call, showing a (broken?) lengthy club suit with potential, to distinguish those types of hand patterns between 2NT and 3♣. Whatever it means, it should not mean "17+ to 19, and please bid 3NT like you know you will, partner." That's dumb.

[han]

vuroth, on Feb 13 2008, 10:08 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Feb 13 2008, 04:27 AM, said:

Opener has shown a minimum hand with long clubs.

What's the range on the 2♣ bid? Would you really jump to 3♣ with 17, knowing partner might only have 6?

Hell yeah!