[helene_t]

I have heard several otherwise sober Acol players saying that opener's rebid of a new suit
1red-1M
2m
is limited to some 15 points. I have even seen this on an apparently serious website (I think it was this British competitor of BBO but not sure).

This sounds completely unplayable to me. Could one (or two) of the Acol experts here enlighten me?

[david_c]

I've heard people saying this too. It's total rubbish of course. Acol is bad, but it's not that bad.

I think if you read this in a book or on a website it's likely to be because they're trying to say "when you have a minimum hand, one of the things you can do is bid a new suit", but they mess this up. There are many situations like this where people seem to have difficulty distinguishing a statement from its converse. The EBU's own system file (which may well be what you read) goes wrong in precisely this way.

[MickyB]

Yup, it's just a misconception, and nothing to do with Acol as far as I know...there may be a lot of NF sequences in Acol, but 1D:1S, 3C isn't one of them!

Actually, maybe the misconception is somehow related to playing Acol - traditionally, 1S:2C, 2D was NF, so that would have been about 11-15, with a GF hand having to jump to 3D.

[Winstonm]

O.K., I'll bite. What have you been smoking, Helene?

[Cascade]

david_c, on Feb 11 2008, 03:11 PM, said:

Acol is bad, but it's not that bad.

Your argument is so convincing.

[Cascade]

Some people play this way. I have no idea where they get it from. My partner comes from a bridge club where they appear to have been taught to jump shift with 16 hcp. This seems to lead to a lot of 3NT on bad sixteens opposite bad six-count misfits. They continue undeterred.

I have sorted this for our partnership.

Acol is 1x 1y; 2z (lower) is wide-ranging. At times this is unplayable but the alternatives are much worse.

[Gerben42]

So is this enough for 3♣

1. in standard?
2. in ACOL?

Scoring: IMP

---

[paulg]

Gerben42, on Feb 11 2008, 08:34 AM, said:

So is this enough for 3♣

1. in standard?
2. in ACOL?

This is the type of hand that most people at my local club bid 3♣ (they are all Acol but I don't think this is particular relevant).

I then slap them a few times and tell them that if they do this again I'll remove the stop card from their bidding box. Unlike in the ACBL this is an effective deterrent.

The normal response from the rest of the table is, "Yes, he hit me last week so I've stopped doing it".

Another three sessions and I should have all the club done!

Paul

[Cascade]

Gerben42, on Feb 11 2008, 09:34 PM, said:

So is this enough for 3♣

1. in standard?
2. in ACOL?

Scoring: IMP

---

After

1♦ 1♠ I would rebid 2♣

After

1♦ 1♥ I would rebid 1NT 15-17

[Gerben42]

In that case you can tell this story:

---

We didn't have any problem (Fantunes system)

1♦ - 1♥
2♣ - 2♠
3NT - PASS (good decision partner!)

Other table reached 5♦, which unluckily went down 1 after 3 rounds of ♥ and a misguess on the ♦Q.

At least 1 table (maybe Acol?) bid

1♦ - 1♥
3♣ ---> 6♦

Down 1 or 2...

[helene_t]

MickyB, on Feb 11 2008, 04:34 AM, said:

Actually, maybe it is somehow related to playing Acol - traditionally, 1S:2C, 2D was NF, so that would have been about 11-15, with a GF hand having to jump to 3D.

That sounds plausible.

[Orla]

Cascade, on Feb 11 2008, 01:14 PM, said:

david_c, on Feb 11 2008, 03:11 PM, said:

Acol is bad, but it's not that bad.

Your argument is so convincing.

ROFL
RLA

[Wackojack]

1x-1y-2z non reverse shows the same distribution as sayc, and 1x and 1y are the same point range. So 2z must be the same.

Regarding the no trump rebids. Most Acollers, I believe play 1x-1y-1nt as 15-16 and 1x-1y-2nt as 17-18 up to a bad 19. However, there are a growing number of players who see the advantages of playing 1nt rebid as 15-17 and 2nt rebid as 18-19.

[zasanya]

I do not understand the malicious remarks against acol.I have seen umpteen sayc; 2/1 players jumping with 16+ points while others blithely open off shape NT.
As to the original question I will jump shift with 16 hcp and 5-5 or better shape.We play it as 1 rd force with simple prefernce as sign off.We have occasionally landed in dubious 3NT contracts but who hasn't?
Let her/him cast the first stone.

[david_c]

zasanya, on Feb 11 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

I do not understand the malicious remarks against acol.

That's odd. Have you tried playing it?

( )

[cherdano]

Gerben42, on Feb 11 2008, 03:20 AM, said:

In that case you can tell this story:

---

We didn't have any problem (Fantunes system)

1♦ - 1♥
2♣ - 2♠
3NT - PASS (good decision partner!)

Fantunes must be a great system if responder knew that opener can't hold KQJ x AQxxx AJxx.

[zasanya]

david_c, on Feb 11 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

zasanya, on Feb 11 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

I do not understand the malicious remarks against acol.

That's odd. Have you tried playing it?

( )

Yes.I find it better than sayc, 2/1, polish club,EHAA,Neapolitan club,KD Joshi and some others.
Have you tried it?
Seiously could you furnish hands where acol will lead to decidedly inferior contracts?

[david_c]

Sorry, my comments were obviously not intended as serious discussion. Acol-bashing is good sport, and helps relieve stress from having to play it at the club. If you really want a serious discussion about the problems with Acol then I'll be happy to participate if you start a new thread or something.

[Cascade]

Gerben42, on Feb 11 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

At least 1 table (maybe Acol?) bid

1♦ - 1♥
3♣ ---> 6♦

Down 1 or 2...

Maybe not Acol ...

perhaps they were just bad bidders.