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Further auction after DONT Bidding over their 1NT opening bid

Poll: What do you bid over the 3NT call by your RHO (18 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you bid over the 3NT call by your RHO

  1. Pass, I have a good lead and we are vul (7 votes [38.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.89%

  2. DBL, I have a good lead and don't know if we can make 4[SP] (3 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  3. 4 CLUB, give partner a choice between D, S, and H (2 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  4. 4D - partner will run if his second suit is not Diamonds (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 4 Hearts - well, it is a bid isn't it? (1 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  6. 4 SPADES - bid game vul, also maybe cheap save (5 votes [27.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.78%

  7. Other not listed (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2004-February-26, 15:23

As conventional on BBF, you are south holding:
Scoring: IMP
West North East South
                  1N    2♦!
  3♣    3♥!   3N     ?

At imps, you are playing an aggressive syle DONT overcall. Your 2♦ bid showed ♦s and a major. Your partner's 3♥ showed a choice of two contracts, ♥'s and either ♦ or ♠. Your non-vul opponent now ventures a 3NT bid.

What do you bid?
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-February-26, 16:04

Lets think this over. The real meaning of 3♣ isn't given, so I suspect it's natural NF, but with some values. If it's otherwise, I'll have to make a new analysis.
So on what kind of hands will opener bid 3NT? He has support in ♣, that's for sure. He also needs a ♦ stopper, so that gives him J10xx or better (so max 4♣s). That leaves partner with short ♦ and long ♠s (and ♥s). If he's prepared to play 3M Vulnerable, what kind of hand does he have? At least 1 stiff or void, and some length in one of the Majors, because he won't have lots of values. Distribution it is, and my stiff ♣ is pretty fine! So we should lose about 3 tricks in the majors and perhaps one in ♣s, for -1 at the most. Will they make 3NT? They have about 6-7 tricks ♣, a stop in ♠s and a stop in ♥s. If they make about 3 tricks in the majors when we play, they'll get to 9 tricks! Otherwise 4M will make. So 4X is a good defense.

Now the question is: what will we bid? We can eliminate Dbl and pass already. I guess 4♣ is the best bid: it should show ♦ and ♠ with ♥ tollerance. If partner has a length (6+) ♥ he can bid 4♥, otherwise he should choose if he wants to play 4♦ or 4♠. Second best bid is 4♦ imo, to show ♦ and ♠, but it kills the possibility to play 4♥.

4♣
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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2004-February-26, 16:13

Free, on Feb 27 2004, 01:04 AM, said:

(remark: in the poll, I think "3♣" must be "4♣")

Lets think this over. The real meaning of 3♣ isn't given, so I suspect it's natural NF, but with some values. If it's otherwise, I'll have to make a new analysis.
So on what kind of hands will opener bid 3NT? He has support in ♣, that's for sure. He also needs a ♦ stopper, so that gives him J10xx or better (so max 4♣s). That leaves partner with short ♦ and long ♠s (and ♥s). If he's prepared to play 3M Vulnerable, what kind of hand does he have? At least 1 stiff or void, and some length in one of the Majors, because he won't have lots of values. Distribution it is, and my stiff ♣ is pretty fine! So we should lose about 3 tricks in the majors and perhaps one in ♣s, for -1 at the most. Will they make 3NT? They have about 6-7 tricks ♣, a stop in ♠s and a stop in ♥s. If they make about 3 tricks in the majors when we play, they'll get to 9 tricks! Otherwise 4M will make. So 4X is a good defense.

Now the question is: what will we bid? We can eliminate Dbl and pass already. I guess 4♣ is the best bid: it should show ♦ and ♠ with ♥ tollerance. If partner has a length (6+) ♥ he can bid 4♥, otherwise he should choose if he wants to play 4♦ or 4♠. Second best bid is 4♦ imo, to show ♦ and ♠, but it kills the possibility to play 4♥.

4♣

I like an immediate 4S bid.

A 4-4 fit in Spades should play better than a 5-3 in Hearts, especially given the expected trump lead.

The immediate 4S bid puts maximum pressure on the opps. A 4C bid gives them too many options during the auction.
Alderaan delenda est
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#4 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2004-February-26, 19:15

What is the meaning of LHO's 3♣ ? (i.e. constructive in a Lebensohl-ish scheme ?)
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#5 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-February-26, 19:44

4♠, pd comes in Vul at 3 level, so he must have at least 9 cards in majors and probably 10.

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#6 User is offline   WGF_Flame 

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Posted 2004-February-26, 19:55

Mp i would double, this is because i think 3nt will be a vgood score for them anyway, if they make it.
the resson im not bidding 4 is because there is a good chance that this 3nt will not make, yes east would like to have j10xx in D and both majors As and a runing club, but in real life he might bid this 3nt on maney other hands which he hopes will give him a good score, for example he doesnt have to have the A of spade.
Imp i would bid, vul game is possibe, 2 down is less possible, so i want to be there, what exactly is parnership agrement, imo this 3h shows hearts and spades, it doesnt show better hearts then spades, and i will therefore bid 4sp.
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#7 User is offline   luis 

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Posted 2004-February-27, 08:02

Pass and I hope to write something in my column.
There're a lot of inferences in the bidding:
First of all 3c is game forcing with a club suit so LHO does have value for game and the 3h bid from my pd doesn't promise a single honor, just the distribution needed to play at the 3 level in hearts or spades or the 4 level in diamonds.
So our side has a very good 9/10 card fit in spades or diamonds so LHO is short in spades or diamonds and has a club suit.
Pd has also hearts so I don't think we can make 4s or 5d because we will lose 1c and 3 hearts or maybe 1c, 2h and 1 spade.
If I bid something I force them to double because of the vulnerability if I pass they may have a losing option. Maybe they find 5c, maybe they have a slam but maybe they will pass 3N and I can run 5 diamond tricks.
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#8 User is offline   mishovnbg 

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Posted 2004-February-29, 05:44

Spoiler
Hi All!
Spoiler
Playing with paradox bids is not easy. I played it many time in Lambda system (alternative 2 suited openings, now forbidden). Bid like 3♥ deny ♦ support and show better support for ♠ normally. Interesting bid is X after 3♣. What it tells to partner here? In my opinion, like NT it show equival support for ♥ and ♠, not enough distribution for 3NT. I think same meaning of X in paradox responses structure, can be accepted as general agreement.
Spoiler
My choice will be 4♠, because expecting of superfit ♠, good fill of my ♥ and because I don't like when opps steal my games by mistakes or superagressive bidding in not vul :) .

Spoiler
Misho
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