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xxxx KQx Axx Kxx
w/w
1C by you, p 1S by pard, 3H p p X p ?
Matchpoints, Oh Matchpoints
#2
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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:20
Pass?
#3
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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:36
3♠
#4
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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:39
I think I like 3♠.
Pass, 3♠ and 3NT all have their attractions.
3♠ tells partner about the fit (such as it is!).
3NT will often not have 9 tricks - we need a lot of help from partner.
3♥X may go 1 down for 100, not so good if we can make 140, but not so bad if we can't.
At least bidding 3♠ puts us in contention for 140 or 420, in return for losing the chances of 300 or 500.
Pass, 3♠ and 3NT all have their attractions.
3♠ tells partner about the fit (such as it is!).
3NT will often not have 9 tricks - we need a lot of help from partner.
3♥X may go 1 down for 100, not so good if we can make 140, but not so bad if we can't.
At least bidding 3♠ puts us in contention for 140 or 420, in return for losing the chances of 300 or 500.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
#5
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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:39
Fluffy, on Jan 29 2008, 05:36 AM, said:
3♠
Hi,
ok, ... but why did you pass 3H
the round before?
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#6
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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:41
3♠ don't we have a 9 card spade fit? 
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#7
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Posted 2008-January-29, 05:05
gwnn, on Jan 29 2008, 05:41 AM, said:
3♠ don't we have a 9 card spade fit?
Why do we have a 9-card spade fit? What would partner bid on opening hands with 4144, 4243, or 4234 shape?
P_Marlowe, on Jan 29 2008, 05:39 AM, said:
Hi,
ok, ... but why did you pass 3H
the round before?
With kind regards
Marlowe
ok, ... but why did you pass 3H
the round before?
With kind regards
Marlowe
I think bidding 3♠ the previous round is pretty horrible. I have a hand which is almost entirely defensive with every expectation of beating 3♥ and no expectation of making 3♠ opposite a random 8-count with 4 spades.
#8
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Posted 2008-January-29, 05:11
3♠ has little appeal, at least pass and 3NT have considerable upside when they are right.
My hand looks all defence, so I'll pass and hope for +300 against partscore and +500 against game.
Paul
My hand looks all defence, so I'll pass and hope for +300 against partscore and +500 against game.
Paul
#9
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Posted 2008-January-29, 05:21
3♠. If this is wrong I'll just say that I hate matchpoints (which isn't true btw).
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#10
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Posted 2008-January-29, 05:26
I dont understand the auction, but, since this was dbled, I think I pass 
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-January-29, 05:40
People really have a problem with passing 3H the first time? WOW.
#12
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Posted 2008-January-29, 05:44
rogerclee, on Jan 29 2008, 01:05 PM, said:
Why do we have a 9-card spade fit? What would partner bid on opening hands with 4144, 4243, or 4234 shape?
I meant to say "don't we rate to have a 9 card spade fit?". sorry
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#13
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Posted 2008-January-29, 06:01
rogerclee, on Jan 29 2008, 06:05 AM, said:
P_Marlowe, on Jan 29 2008, 05:39 AM, said:
Hi,
ok, ... but why did you pass 3H
the round before?
With kind regards
Marlowe
ok, ... but why did you pass 3H
the round before?
With kind regards
Marlowe
I think bidding 3♠ the previous round is pretty horrible. I have a hand which is almost entirely defensive with every expectation of beating 3♥ and no expectation of making 3♠ opposite a random 8-count with 4 spades.
Hi,
I did not suggest bidding 3S the round
before, pass is fairly obvious, I only tried
to say that bidding 3S now, is inconsistent
with my action the round before.
Now, I would pass again, the reasons,
why I passed instead of bidding 3S
are still valid, you may prefer 3NT now
over pass, which would be fine me as well,
... because you now have the add. info that
partner showed some add. live, but in my
opinion bidding 3S now is just inconsistent.
I have made my decision, and I will see
how it works out.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#14
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Posted 2008-January-29, 06:06
I don't agree with this, I think pass followed by 3♠ is the right way of showing a hand that would like to bid 3♠ immediately but was too weak. Something like a 3-1-4-5 (assuming that shape is a 1♣ opening in our style) would be more typical, though.
OTOH if this hand is too weak for an immediate 3♠ maybe it would be better not to open it. In fact I would not have opened this hand.
OTOH if this hand is too weak for an immediate 3♠ maybe it would be better not to open it. In fact I would not have opened this hand.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#15 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2008-January-29, 06:37
P_Marlowe and helene_t: are you 2 implying that hands with 4 spades are always supposed to bid 3S in this auction?
It seems like P_Marlowe is implying that we passed 3H because we were planning on not raising spades ever, rather than the (to me) more obvious reason that we passed 3H because our hand was not good enough to bid 3S. You don't think there exists a hand with 4 spades that cannot bid 3S directly, and if we choose to pass with 4 spades we're trying to defend 3H X?
It seems like helene_t is implying that a hand with 4 spades that cannot bid 3S here is not an opening bid.
I don't understand why normal minimum balanced hands are not routinely passing 3H. If partner cannot bid you're not missing anything. You shouldn't be forced to drive to 3S opposite a 1 level response with a weak NT hand type and only a known 8 card fit. What is partner going to do with some hand like KQTx xx Axxx Jxx? To me this is an obvious game if partner raises me directly to 3S. After all I would expect partner to bid 3S on 14 with a stiff and other various strong hands. It seems to me like logically you must have at least a reasonable hand to bid 3S here, otherwise you could just be in the stratosphere with no protection and if you CAN make 3S partner is going to bid 4S. We shouldn't be forced to automatically raise just because they preempted; partner is still alive.
It didn't even cross my mind to bid 3S directly, or that anyone would want to. I did know that some people would object to opening, but hopefully those who do know they are in a big minority to pass with KQ A K and can live with it.
It seems like P_Marlowe is implying that we passed 3H because we were planning on not raising spades ever, rather than the (to me) more obvious reason that we passed 3H because our hand was not good enough to bid 3S. You don't think there exists a hand with 4 spades that cannot bid 3S directly, and if we choose to pass with 4 spades we're trying to defend 3H X?
It seems like helene_t is implying that a hand with 4 spades that cannot bid 3S here is not an opening bid.
I don't understand why normal minimum balanced hands are not routinely passing 3H. If partner cannot bid you're not missing anything. You shouldn't be forced to drive to 3S opposite a 1 level response with a weak NT hand type and only a known 8 card fit. What is partner going to do with some hand like KQTx xx Axxx Jxx? To me this is an obvious game if partner raises me directly to 3S. After all I would expect partner to bid 3S on 14 with a stiff and other various strong hands. It seems to me like logically you must have at least a reasonable hand to bid 3S here, otherwise you could just be in the stratosphere with no protection and if you CAN make 3S partner is going to bid 4S. We shouldn't be forced to automatically raise just because they preempted; partner is still alive.
It didn't even cross my mind to bid 3S directly, or that anyone would want to. I did know that some people would object to opening, but hopefully those who do know they are in a big minority to pass with KQ A K and can live with it.
#16
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Posted 2008-January-29, 07:02
I think at Pairs this auction has gone quite well from my perspective, giving me a chance to make a good score by passing. My cards look well placed.
#17
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Posted 2008-January-29, 07:18
Jlall, on Jan 29 2008, 02:37 PM, said:
P_Marlowe and helene_t: are you 2 implying that hands with 4 spades are always supposed to bid 3S in this auction?
Almost, though I would make an exception for hands like this one because either p has a singleton ♥ (so my values are vasted) or LHO has so they are, well, wasted as well. Ultimately I suppose the decision should be made on the basis of offensive values with some reduction for defensive strnegth, say O-0.5D, it's just that it is easier to count spades than to make a more subtle O and O-D estimation.
Would you raise with something like Qxxx-xx-KQx-AQxx or Qxxx-Axx-KQx-Qxxx?
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#18
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Posted 2008-January-29, 08:41
I will rate it
3NT > pass > 3♠.
But I'm far from convinced. This could be a MSC problem.
If partner has a chunky 5card spade suit, taking the defense rates to be wrong. So I'm not going to gamble on that.
Between 3♠ and 3NT, 3NT rates to be right if partner has significant extras, if we have good control over all suit, if it's a "same tricks" board or if a heart ruff will hurt us. I'll try this.
Passing 3♥ was clearcut.
3NT > pass > 3♠.
But I'm far from convinced. This could be a MSC problem.
If partner has a chunky 5card spade suit, taking the defense rates to be wrong. So I'm not going to gamble on that.
Between 3♠ and 3NT, 3NT rates to be right if partner has significant extras, if we have good control over all suit, if it's a "same tricks" board or if a heart ruff will hurt us. I'll try this.
Passing 3♥ was clearcut.
Michael Askgaard
#19
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Posted 2008-January-29, 09:00
I think I would gamble out 3NT. I have 2 heart stoppers and any spade cards will likely be onside. Looks like a hand where we can make with less than typical game values. I don't think we're taking 3♥ for 500.
#20
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Posted 2008-January-29, 09:02
Apollo81, on Jan 29 2008, 07:00 AM, said:
I think I would gamble out 3NT. I have 2 heart stoppers and any spade cards will likely be onside. Looks like a hand where we can make with less than typical game values
At last a ray of sensibility here. 3N has the right amount of aggression, unlike a pass and 3♠. FWIW, I like 3N at IMPs too.
"Phil" on BBO