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Youre The Sub

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 23:53

You are subbed into a game a to your dismay discover the1 has been placed on the table in front of you.
Your partner responded 2, what is your bid?


AQJxx, xx, Jxxx, Kx
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#2 User is offline   grrigg 

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Posted 2008-January-28, 23:59

In this situation I would bid 3 as the least of evils. Many (most) play some sort of catch-all either rebidding 2M or 2NT but in this case partner might think 2 promises 6 and 2NT shows both other suit stoppers. I'd bid your shape and hope for the best.

Btw, whats wrong with 1? :huh:
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 00:10

Yes Katherine, whats wrong with 1S? With an unknown partner I think 3D is absolutely clear. (I have different agreements with normal pd).
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#4 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 02:11

2 Spade is absolute clear. :huh:
At least if my partner is from a civiliszed country like France, Poland or Germany. There "all" players know that this is the catch all bid and simply denies extra strength.

With partners from the wild west or some unkonown territories I will bid 3 Diamonds.
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#5 User is offline   Trysalot 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 02:53

The first thing I would do is look at the posted convention card to see if the pair was playing 2/1 and P is making a game forcing bid.

From reading the brief information given, I am assuming the 1 spade bid was made in first seat. So, in my opinion, as to what's wrong with 1 spade, that is not an opening hand by any stretch of my imagination. Maybe the rest of you open hands like that in first seat but I never do. Therefore, if I was to see the posted card is 2/1 and can't see bidding this piece of cheese to game, I would not rebid my 5 card spade suit nor would I raise the diamond bid or bid 2NT in fear that P is going to continue bidding with a 13 pointer until we reach a game. I would rather risk the anger of P or the assumption I know nothing about the 2/1 system (LOL) and the resulting bad score if P has more than a minimum opening hand. Therefore my bid over 2 diamonds would be pass. (Running, ducking, and doing whatever I can to avoid your negative replies to my solution.)
Trysalot
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#6 User is offline   Trysalot 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 02:55

P.S. Nothing was said as to whether this was a pairs game or an individual. If an individual I would assume sayc and bid one of the choices offered by the earlier posters.
Trysalot
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 02:57

2 is perfectly obvious in any system - we don't have extras (to put it mildly, lol).
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#8 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 03:11

The hand started well - we were dealt an opening hand with spades.
Things got better - partner made a 2/1 in our second suit!
Now we can let partner know the good news by bidding 3
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#9 User is offline   grrigg 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 03:13

Trys: Regardless of your opening style passing over 2 is 100% wrong. If you think that partner has a minimum of 13HCP then you hold at least 24 points together. And you have a fit. But why should partner have the bare minimum?? He could have more, potentially much more. The worst thing that happens is you bid a slim game and 13 opposite 11 games do make quite often. People often bid games with less. You are aiming at an incredibly narrow target. You might hit it, but the chances are super slim.
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 03:36

I would bid 2. Firmly believe it is technically wrong to support pard here because if you support on any hand with a fit, you can be supporting with as little as

AQJxx
xx
Jxxx
Kx

(add a jack if you want 12 hcp) or as much as

AKQJx
xx
Kxxx
Ax
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#11 User is offline   Roupoil 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:43

With a French partner, 2 without hesitating. 3 would promise extras and be GF (of course, I assume here 2 is not GF itself).
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:47

Trysalot, you shouldn't suggest pass. Pass is wrong. Pass is bad. Pass is evil. Pass should never come to anyone's mind... As a general rule, once you decided to sell your hand as a particular category, you cannot subsequently change that description. For example, if you open 1NT on Kx Qxx Jxx AKxxxx, you can't pass partner's stayman bid.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#13 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 04:51

Hi,

2S is the safest bid you can make, but 3D
is certainly also a sensible bid.
After 2S Partner wont assume a 6 carder,
because you would bid 2S as well, if you would
hold the same hand, but with the minor suits
switched.

It would be different, if partner had bid 2C,
and you would hold 5 spades and 4 clubs,
because in this scenario, some partner may
expect 6 spades for a 2 S bid.
In this scenario I would raise.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 05:24

As Roland said, 2 with someone from a civilized country.

3 with someone from the Netherlands (I guess I'm feeling homesick). Well, 3 with someone from UK or Ireland also.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#15 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 09:57

This depends entirely on agreements.

With some 3 is GF, 2NT (11)13-14 balanced and 2 a catch-all.

I've played 2 as catch-all, 2NT as GF with support and 3 as min with support.

And I've even played that 2 promised 6 with 2NT a catch-all - a method I'd say is unplayable. :unsure:

These methods can apply both in a 2/1 GF context and 2/1 10+.

Without agreements I'd expect the normal bid here to be 3. But in several environments that would be GF udiscussed.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#16 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 10:13

My p objected loudly to my 1 opening. Not that it matters, I was a sub.

I wasn’t sure how 2 would be understood so I bid 3. It is too easy to foster bad habits with pick up partners but harder to do the "right" thing when you know there is a good chance it will be misunderstood.

P held x,xxxx,AKQ10x,xxx
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#17 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-January-29, 10:45

shoot pard ^^
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