[joshs]

I usually play these as 4441 (and have the both minors bid be either 54 or 55 with natural followups so we can locate a 4-3 or 5-3 fit in the fragment). But anyway the same principles can apply:

Marc and my notes:

Continuations over 3H (4-1-4-4, GF)

3S 4+ clubs (
4C Waiting, forward going
4• RKC for clubs
)
3nt to play

4C 4+ diamonds (
4• Waiting, forward going
4H RKC for Diamonds
)
4• 4-4 in minors(
4H Sets clubs as trumps
4S Sets diamonds as trumps
4nt Double RKC
)
4H 4 spades, extras(
4S To play
4nt RKC
)
4S 4 spades, minimum

Continuations over 3S (1-4-4-4, GF)

3nt to play

4C 4+ diamonds(
4• Waiting, forward going
4H RKC for diamonds
)
4• 4 hearts, extra(
4H To play
4S RKC for hearts
)
4H 4 hearts, minimum(
4S RKC for hearts
)
4S 4+ clubs(
4nt RKC
5C To play
)

[helene_t]

Cascade, on Jan 26 2008, 07:36 AM, said:

2. we will have a four-card major

We play those via Stayman (we do not play Smolen so 3M over the 2♦ answer to Stayman is a sort of splinter). A direct 3M is for the (31)(45) hands. I suppose one could invert this, just seems more natural this way.

[fred]

In my partnership with Brad Moss we use:

1NT-3D=4414/4441/4405/4450
1NT-3H=1444/0445/0454
1NT-3S=4144/4045/4054

These bids do not come up that often, but when they do we often win a swing because many pairs even at the highest levels do not have a good way to bid 3-suited hands opposite a 1NT opening.

With both minors and no 4-card major, we start with 2D (transfer to hearts) and then bid 2S ("I don't have hearts I have the minors!"). If you are going to try something like this you need to do some work on not just the normal followup auctions, but also on dealing with super-accepts of 2D and interference.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[jdonn]

This all was sort of my point. Many people have agreements to show 2 and 3 suited hands after 1NT, but how many have discussed followups? At least as far as what opener's next bids mean and what responder's rebids mean? Not many people, I bet, which is a bit surprising.

[joshs]

jdonn, on Jan 31 2008, 01:50 PM, said:

This all was sort of my point. Many people have agreements to show 2 and 3 suited hands after 1NT, but how many have discussed followups? At least as far as what opener's next bids mean and what responder's rebids mean? Not many people, I bet, which is a bit surprising.

Dude, take any convention, and find how many people have discussed followups, let alone the 3 round of the auction.... Many people play methods which leave no forcing way of setting trumps below game, and end up in the tank at the table when they have extras in that situation.

[mike777]

3 suited hands, this may have been posted already.


1nt=2nt!=3c!
3d=4414 slam try
3h=4144 slam try
3s=1444 slam try
3nt=4441 slam try

2nt! is either sign off in clubs or 3 suited slam try.

[Tcyk]

I had a book entitled "Relay Club." As I recall the authors name was something like Bose. It was a canape system based on losers with 1NT=12-14 HCP. The greatest thing about the book was the 1NT opening treatments. Transfers were weak or invitational. Forcing hands began with Stayman and followed with a second asking bid which we called "Extended Stayman." The opening bidder's exact shape could be disclosed below the level of 3NT. 1NT opening bids could contain a weak 5-card major but never 5-4-2-2 shape.

As I recall, Invitational 4441-type hands were shown by apparently transferring and then bidding 3NT (... and remember this was invitational). The suit bid for the transfer was the singleton. (Isn't that scary?) Thus 4=4=1=4 shape would be shown by the following auction (opponents pass throughout): 1NT 2D, 2H 3NT. The theory was that with 4-4-4-1 shape you must have at least a 7-card fit and God forgive you when opener's strength is in your singleton. That's why only weak 5-card majors were allowed.

3C and 3D showed 4-3 shape in the majors (either way) and a singleton in the bid suit. 3H and 3S showed a singleton in the bid suit, 4-cards in the opposite major and 3-5 shape (either way) in the minors. There were many example hands taken from international play and bidding contests where the author showed the superiority of these methods. Often, games were reached with 21 to 24 HCP that were missed by the field. These games were also often in Moysian fits. Of course, he didn't show the hands where the methods didn't work.

Since transfers (and the 3-level bids were transfers of a sort) were invitational, rebids by the opener were very simple. They just placed the final contract. Scrambling to the best minor suit was not as difficult as one might think.

[kenrexford]

Another notrump structure for folks interested in shortness bidding. This is what I currently play:

3M shows 3-1 in the majors (bidding the shortness, but I think the frag is better); 5-4/4-5 minors.

3♦ shows both majors, invitational+. Opener can pick a major weak 3M, strong 4M, or flag (4♣=♥; 4♦=♠) if "slammish" max.

3♣ = Puppet. I think Batchelder is best even here. Late 4♣/4♦ if not supporting a major somehow usually is 4315-type.

2NT relay to 3♣ to either play in 3minor or short major if 2344 slammish or flag short major (4♣/4♦) if 1246 slammish, or 3NT is 2245 slammish.

2♠ is MSS, but Opener onyl bids minor if slammish. 3♣ by Responder then minors and weak. 3♦ instead is 2254 slammish (parallel to 2NT...3NT). 3M is minors, bidding shortness. Flag short major (4♣/4♦) if 1264 slammish.

With 4441's, Stayman first.

Not complete, but what I play.

[Dwingo]

Another discussion thread in RGB on the same topic

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.b...q=kooldood2345#

[PrecisionL]

Dwingo, on Feb 14 2008, 07:45 AM, said:

Another discussion thread in RGB on the same topic

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.b...q=kooldood2345#

Thread not complete, truncated by software.

Try this one:

http://groups.google...c.games.bridge/
browse_thread/thread/eef5ee489e73a16/41c3d00fb4701a75?lnk=gst&q=1NT+-+3m#41c3d00fb4701a75

Larry