[firmit]

AKx
AKx
AKx
AKxx

I actually had this hand today - 28hp, 5 LTC, now what... how do you evaluate such a flat hand? I opened 2♣-2♦- now what?

I have some trouble de-evaluate balanced hands. Yesterday at the club, partner opened 1♠ with a bare minimum (AKQJ xxx xxx Jxx), I held 22hp with same distro... I had no chance to stop... Only a couple using 8-12hp NT managed to stop in 4♠. The rest was in 6 or 7 with 11 - a ruff and K offside...

These balanced killer hands have given me some trouble lately.... Any tips?

[helene_t]

I think 28 points is a reasonable estimate. It suggests that you need 5 HCPs from p, or 4 plus some shape, to make 6NT. And that is not too far off.

HCP is a surprisingly accurate measure of playing strength for balanced hands.

[gwnn]

2♣-2♦-

2NT=22-24
3NT=25-26 (or 25-27)
4NT=27-28 (or 28-30)

is a simplistic, but nevertheless ok scheme...

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3NT or 4NT.

One recommendation is to subtract a point
because of the 4333 shape, on the other hand,
you most likely find enough books which will
recommend to add a point because of to the purity
of your values.

Regarding your other question:
You went down because your partner opened a
hand, which is not an opening hand, at least if
you play standard.
If your partner would have subtracted one point
because of the 4333 shape, he would have got
10HCP, and hence he would have passed.

This does not mean you would have been able to
stop below the 6 level, but after the opening bid
you cant.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

I think Art might pass it.

[firmit]

gwnn, on Jan 24 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

2♣-2♦-

2NT=22-24
3NT=25-26 (or 25-27)
4NT=27-28 (or 28-30)

is a simplistic, but nevertheless ok scheme...

The bidding went:
2♣-2♦-4NT-5♣!-5NT!!-6♣-ap

Am I entitled to blame partner for his 5♣? or even the 6♣?

He held:
10xxx xxx Qxx xxx

My hand:
AKx AKx AKx AK10x - the 10 is new

Our structure with multi is this: ( 2NT minors )
2♣-2♦-2NT 20-21(22)
2♦-2♥-2NT 22-23(24)
2♣-2♦-3NT 24-25(26)
2♦-2♥-3NT 26-27(28)
2♣-2♦-4NT 28-29 i guess...

Thus - I do blame myself a bit here... with the 5 LTC.

[P_Marlowe]

firmit, on Jan 24 2008, 04:55 AM, said:

gwnn, on Jan 24 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

2♣-2♦-

2NT=22-24
3NT=25-26 (or 25-27)
4NT=27-28 (or 28-30)

is a simplistic, but nevertheless ok scheme...

The bidding went:
2♣-2♦-4NT-5♣!-5NT!!-6♣-ap

Am I entitled to blame partner for his 5♣? or even the 6♣?

He held:
10xxx xxx Qxx xxx

My hand:
AKx AKx AKx AK10x - the 10 is new

Our structure with multi is this: ( 2NT minors )
2♣-2♦-2NT 20-21(22)
2♦-2♥-2NT 22-23(24)
2♣-2♦-3NT 24-25(26)
2♦-2♥-3NT 26-27(28)
2♣-2♦-4NT 28-29 i guess...

Thus - I do blame myself a bit here... with the 5 LTC.

Hi,

assuming 4NT does showed 28-30HCP and a bal. shape,
your partner should pass 4NT.

So, yes, your partner is to blame, he holds a bal.
hand with 2HCP and a 4333 shape, add to this that
Queens are overvalued, ... he should pass.
The partnership has at most 32HCP, which contract
does he want to play?

I guess 5C was Stayman (?! Puppet Stayman) and 5NT
was what?

Of course most likely 4NT was taken as Ace Asking,
and 5NT as King Asking.
Hence the real reason was a partnership misunderstanding
about the followups after a strong NT opener.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[matmat]

5♣ is what? garbage stayman at the 5 level?

[ArtK78]

The_Hog, on Jan 24 2008, 03:13 AM, said:

I think Art might pass it.

I would dredge up an opening bid on these cards.



For what it is worth, the Kaplan and Rubens Hand Evaluator calculates that this hand is worth 28.60 HCP, and Danny Kleinman's HCP evaluation of this hand is 30- (somehow the idea of calling this a "bad" 30 count strikes me as funny).

EDIT: I did not notice that the AKxx of clubs was changed to the AKTx of clubs. With the ♣10 added to the hand, the Kaplan and Rubens Hand Evaluator calculates that this hand is worth 29.25 HCP, and Danny Kleinman's HCP evaluation of this hand is now 30+.

[ArcLight]

4NT was obviously misinterpreted as Blackwood.

Quantitative NT is frequetly misinterpreted as Blackwood.

[brianshark]

It's one of my biggest pet peeves in bridge... people who don't know how to pass 4NT. It really really irks me.

[lexlogan]

You bid the hand "correctly", with predictably disastrous results. Your partner misinterpreted your natural 4NT rebid as Blackwood; you "correctly" read his club bids as natural suit bids. The simple fact is you can't count on partners to do much of anything right on unfamiliar sequences.

As a practical matter, rebidding 3NT will not be far off the mark. You're not strong enough to guess that slam is on, but if partner raises to 4NT you can reasonably bid 6NT, even if he meant his bid as Blackwood.

After the round or session is over, you can discuss what the correct way to bid the hand should be: 4NT = 28-30, suit bids in reply are natural. And the next time you see such a hand you'll have yet another partner .

[jtfanclub]

firmit, on Jan 23 2008, 06:29 PM, said:

I have some trouble de-evaluate balanced hands. Yesterday at the club, partner opened 1♠ with a bare minimum (AKQJ xxx xxx Jxx), I held 22hp with same distro... I had no chance to stop... Only a couple using 8-12hp NT managed to stop in 4♠. The rest was in 6 or 7 with 11 - a ruff and K offside...

Every system has holes in it. You found a big one in SAYC. When the entire part of the field playing SAYC or 2/1 gets to the same place with the same result, I don't think evaluation is going to help much.

[han]

firmit, on Jan 24 2008, 04:55 AM, said:

Thus - I do blame myself a bit here... with the 5 LTC.

My advice: don't ever use loser count again.