[CSGibson]

For those of you who play Kokish and short suit game tries, what advantages do you find in the system? Any disadvantages?

[TylerE]

SImply, you get to have it both ways. What's not to like? The complexity isn't that bad.

[cafie]

for the uninformed, pls detail the kokish and short suit game tries. tyvm

[pclayton]

Kokish is excellent, but SSGT's aren't mandatory.

[awm]

Here's my understanding of the method:

After 1♠-2♠:

3♥, 3♦, and 3♣ are short suit game tries
2NT asks partner to bid the lowest suit in which he would accept a help suit try

After 1♥-2♥:
3♦ and 3♣ are short suit game tries
2NT is a short suit game try in spades
2♠ asks partner to bid the lowest suit in which he would accept a help suit try with 2NT saying "I would accept a try in spades" and higher bids denying spade help

After a sequence like:

1♠-2♠-2NT-3♣

Bidding a suit below 3♠ is a help-suit try in that suit.

I have seen 1M-2M-3M in this method played as any of: ask for help in trump suit, obstructive (123 stop), general game try. There is the additional caveat that if you play it as "ask for help in trump suit" then you can bid it with strong trumps as an obstructive maneuver as well.

I have also seen the "reverse" of these methods where the cheapest bid says "I have a short suit game try somewhere, please relay to ask me where" and the direct bid is a help-suit try.

These methods are very accurate because they let you "have it both ways" with short suit and help suit tries. They also tend to conceal information from the opponents, since on the common "help-suit" sequences we have responder describing his hand (he will be dummy anyway) instead of vice versa. Note that this advantage is lost in the "reverse" methods. The main disadvantage seems to be that it can be hard to establish a fit in the other major (in case four of the other major is a better game).

[cherdano]

Han and me play what Adam calls the "reversed" method, it seems to work well (and doesn't have the disadvantage Adam is mentioning). One comment is that we play 1H-2H-2S as "please tell me which short suit game tries you would reject", but as not promising shortness. That way you can also use it with a balanced hand to find out which game will be best (as responder will be telling you where his values are).

[mikestar]

If you like this method, also consider Marshal Miles game tries from Modern Constructive Bidding.

With Miles, after 1♠-2♠ then 3♣/3♦/3♥ are bona fide long suit tries showing usually a 5-card side suit. Most moderns just shoot out game, but there are many hands where a near minimum 5-5 can invite and stop short if responder
has the wrong hand.

Both short suit tries and help suit tries go through 2NT. Responder can sign off or bid game if the action is clear cut. Otherwise, he bids the cheapest suit with a concentration of secondary honors--this is usually the same as the cheapest suit in which he would reject a short suit try. Opener signs off or bids game, or can make a help suit try if there is room.

So in a sequence such as 1♠-2♠-2NT-3♦-4♠ does opener have

• a hand which needed help in diamonds;
  
• a very good hand that just needed a little more than a dead minimum;
  
• or a hand with a stiff diamond exploring for a perfect fit slam.

Good luck choosing the opening lead.

As in the Kokish method, over 1♥-2♥, 2♠ is the general try and 2NT shows a spade suit.

[skjaeran]

Reverse Kokish is called Romex game tries in Norway. (Actually, most here saying they play Romex actually play Kokish. Anyway, it's not very popular here.)

[bhall]

You can do much better by using a simple compression principle: Double up the bid two steps below the trump suit with a "pure" negative. This applies to both opener and responder. Partner makes the bid just under the trump suit to ask which it was, and the person who made the two-way call bids game with the feature or 3M without. Alternatively, if partner is not interested in that particular feature, he just signs off at 3M.

Example: 1♥-2♥-3♣ can be played as a side-suit try in ♣ or a 1-2-3 STOP hand. Responder bids 3♦ to accept the try, 3♥ to reject. And over responder's 3♦, opener bids 3♥ with the 1-2-3 STOP hand.

Using this approach, you can play both side-suit and short-suit tries by both sides:

1♥-2♥-2♠ asks for a stiff or scattered max (2N), over which opener may show a stiff.
1♥-2♥-2N shows high cards all over the place, asks for a concentration
1♥-2♥-3♦ is a side-suit try in ♦
1♥-2♥-3♥ is a side-suit try in ♠

In all cases, 3♣ shows a ♣ feature or none.

[MFA]

It's a downside that you lose the natural 2NT. I used this bid with success as late as yesterday.

I do play a variation of this convention with my regular partner, however. But it's in a strong club context where the need for a natural 2NT is not so great. Playing standard, it's not clearcut if the sacrifice of the natural 2NT is worth it.