[matmat]

couple of questions about the same auction:

lefty deals and opens;

(1♣)-P-(1NT)-P;
( P ) - ?

if opps play a standard 2/1 treatment, how do you play a X in this position?

same question, but if opps play that 1♣ could be as short as 2, but only if 17-19 balanced? (1NT for them is 14-16)

anyone know what the favored "expert" treatment of the double is? (is there one?)

(and yes, this question may have been asked before, but i'm too lazy to go searching for a specific auction )

[jwmonty]

I like to play this double as short in diamonds. An ideal hand would be KJxx/KJxx/x/AQxx, a hand that is unbiddable otherwise. Note that you are fairly likely to hold something like this on the auction, since many players will respond 1NT to 1C with 5332 shape and a five-card diamond suit, for exactly this reason (to make it hard for the opponents to get together in a major). Also note that playing this way, a bid of clubs by partner in response to your double is natural.

It makes no difference if the opponents are playing that the 1C bid could be short if strong and balanced. If opener held this hand type, he would have raised the 1NT bid to 2 or 3.

Alternative treatments are a delayed takeout double of clubs (not strong enough to double the first time), penalty (long clubs, good hand), and majors with unspecified length in the minors. There are problems with all of these. The first one gets you into the auction at the two level with no guaranteed fit when you are likely to be outgunned in high cards (the opponents can have as much as 13 + 10 = 23), and is unlikely to occur anyway, since you can double 1C with as little as 10-11 HCP if your shape is good and you have 4-4 in the majors. You would therefore not be using it at all unless you had, say, 4=4=4=1 shape with about 8-10 HCP. The second one (penalty of clubs) is unlikely to happen, and some of those hands can balance naturally with a 2C bid. The third one is also unlikely to happen, since you have already refused to use Michaels or to overcall at the one level. You wouldn't be using it very often unless you believe it is right to reopen this auction with any hand that is 4-4 in the majors and has a few high cards, gambling that partner has a four-card major for you. I suppose it could actually be right to do this (it would be interesting to know how often partner does have a 4cM on this auction), but I don't know of any experts who play this way.

My suggested treatment at least gets you into the auction on hands with which it is clearly right to bid something at some point, and does so in a relatively safe way. (There is still the possibility that you will be misfitted and outgunned, but that is true of any balancing action you might take here.)

[Winstonm]

From my own experience, I seem to play this double as "they are going to make so I hope they don't redouble."

[gwnn]

in very very old school std, 1NT guarantees 4 clubs, thereby essentially being equivalent to a single raise. So it would make all the sense in the world for this X to be t/o.

[helene_t]

Jlall, on Jan 19 2008, 10:08 AM, said:

In my experience almost all non experts who bid this way seem to have a takeout double. I have no idea what "expert standard" is.

Spot on, I have agreements about this in only one partnership, in that pship we play all these doubles as t/o no matter the opening suit. It also follow from the meta agreement that doubles must be symmetrical, i.e.
1x-p-1N-x
is t/o, therefore it is t/o by the other p also.

Not sure how useful it is to play it as penalties even after a 1♦ opening.They useually have a club fit to retreat to.

[Double !]

For me, the meaning depends on vulnerability.
Since I strongly prefer to play 13-16 not vul 1NT overcalls, this double would probably suggest a shape-oriented takeout X if my P prefers sound initial dbls. (I prefer the weaker 1NT overcall because it takes pressure of a hand that might normally have to pass because not good enough for 15-17 NT overcall.)

If vulnerable, the likelihood of this dbl is reduced. I'm not sure what it would mean because the opps have already shared a lot of info, so balancing in now is just asking for minus 200 or worse. I already denied having a hand worth a Michaels bid, so..........yo no se.

DHL

[FrancesHinden]

Jlall, on Jan 19 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

"standard" (old school) is that this is a hand that has good clubs and a goodish hand (penalty). This isn't so useful over 1C p 1N since really 1N should have some clubs, but whatever, in all my partnerships thats how I'd play it. I think it's definitely useful/good after 1D/H/S p 1N p p, and I would hate to play it any other way.

In my experience almost all non experts who bid this way seem to have a takeout double. I have no idea what "expert standard" is.

Yes.

You can always bid 2c with a light take-out double (which should not be natural as LHO has in theory shown clubs).