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tale of 2 minors bidding choice

#1 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 18:11

Scoring: IMP


N passes and after some consideration E starts the party with 3H. What would you like to do.

I found this to be somewhat difficult and considered my various options annoying, finally selecting 4C. On reflection I felt this was not best.

I made the choices like this
4C
4N
D

Now lets reconsider the samem situation but your minor suit length is reveresed, what then?
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#2 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 18:30

Wow, I would put both double and 3NT ahead of 4NT, all of which are WAY ahead of 4♣. Since every bid is taking a big chance, you really might as well take a chance with a big upside, which all bids but 4♣ have.
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 18:38

Agree with Josh. 4C is bad as it is too unilateral - 5C is a long way away. I would seriously suggest that pass is better than 4C.
4NT is not great with this distribution. 3NT is a possibility, however....

Yes, X is not a safe bid, but imo it outweighs the other options by a long way. If pd bids 3S, well then I will have to re consider and will probably pass and hope to make on sheer strength. If pd bids 4S, likely he has 5 good ones and I will survive. The big plus for the double is if he bids 3NT or passes.

If the minors are reversed, my choices remail the same.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#4 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 18:50

OK, first, no-one is happy to hold this hand and hear a 3♥ opening.

You pretty much have to double due to lack of alternatives - this is not the same as saying you are happy to double.

On the actual hand, partner will bid 3♠, you will pass, and we will miss a good 3NT contract. Preempts work, yada yada, etc.

If your LHO had opened 3♥, this is a fine 3NT bid. However, in direct seat a 3NT is not a sensible bid - the opening lead will be a ♥ through partner's holding.

Your minor suit lengths - 5-4 or 4-5 - are not relevant - this is a balanced hand, and so 4NT for the minors is a poor call.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#5 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 19:12

mcphee, on Jan 5 2008, 04:11 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP


N passes and after some consideration E starts the party with 3H. What would you like to do.

I'd like to smack my RHO. Not with a double, but with my hand. This is annoying.
Chris Gibson
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#6 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 19:43

mcphee, on Jan 5 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

Dealer: North
Vul: E/W
Scoring: IMP
♠ QJ854
♥ A4
♦ 863
♣ J52
♠ A3
♥ T6
♦ AKT4
♣ AK764
 


N passes and after some consideration E starts the party with 3H. What would you like to do.

I found this to be somewhat difficult and considered my various options annoying, finally selecting 4C. On reflection I felt this was not best.

I made the choices like this
4C
4N
D

Now lets reconsider the samem situation but your minor suit length is reveresed, what then?

alert broken record here.

I will pass a 4s jump by partner, sigh.

cuebid or double with tough bidding hands...

double here.
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#7 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 20:52

3N is usually best but could work terribly.
"Phil" on BBO
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#8 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-January-05, 23:26

I bid 3N expecting to either make or go down 3.
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#9 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-January-05, 23:38

I'd X
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#10 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 00:06

WTP X
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#11 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 01:36

Double and 4♣ on 3♠. If partner JUMPS to 4♠, I will trust that spades are OK and pass.
Michael Askgaard
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 01:37

MFA, on Jan 6 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

Double and 4♣ on 3♠. If partner JUMPS to 4♠, I will trust that spades are OK and pass.

yea...
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#13 User is offline   cjames 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 03:15

I would X
Squeeze me
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 04:04

I hate every bid, everything is a gamble, and IMO 3NT has the best chances of being the best possible final contract.
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#15 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 09:06

The probelm with dble in my view is partner could easily bid 4S on a 4 bagger expecting at least 3 card support for our dble and we would be forced to pass. On this particular hand as it happens if you do overcall 4C the passed hand can try 4S with a reasonable 5 card suit as I hardly think passing 4C is a viable option. 4S should imply a C fit and a hand that is offering another game choice.

4N while not perfect shape at least gives your side a reasonable game to play and will land you in C when responder is 3-3 minors. I actually thought there might be more in favor of 4N which is the reason why I asked hop we would feel if our minors were reversed. Then the 4N bid lands you into the 4-3 C fit when pard is 3-3 minors, what a mess that is.
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 09:31

I think the problem with double is we have no bid when partner bids 3♠. Bidding this club suit after a double makes me feel sick.
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#17 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2008-January-06, 12:43

Doesn't slo-o-ow double warn partner off spades? So Weasel convention wins these hands. Partner bidding spades after slow warning has hefty spades so rebid 4S. Unless partner slow bids 3S, now 3NT. I think that solves the main problems. AND I pity others who have lived just this situation.
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