[1eyedjack]

SoTired, on Jan 1 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

I think there is an unwritten rule-of-thumb that says, "In a q-bidding auction, only the one with the ace of trumps can bid grand."

So would the bidding have been OK if West had held Spades headed by AQ instead of KQ?

I am with Inquiry that the 5S bid asks for good trumps, but I use the steps between 5S and 6S to show specific trump holdings (too good to pass, obviously) just in case partner wants a shot at 7. So on this hand there would be no doubt about the missing Ace (or missing King had West held the Ace instead of the King)

[MFA]

7♠ is a huge overbid, even 6♥ would be too much IMO.
I don't have a serious problem with any of the other calls.

[han]

Winstonm, on Jan 1 2008, 12:07 PM, said:

I think everything is O.K. (except the splinter) until the cuebidding started.

So basically, you agree with 1H and 1S?

[Winstonm]

Hannie, on Jan 1 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Jan 1 2008, 12:07 PM, said:

I think everything is O.K. (except the splinter) until the cuebidding started.

So basically, you agree with 1H and 1S?

Maybe I should clarify - I was O.K. with everything until the bidding started.

[han]

[Echognome]

For those that would keycard over 4♥:

AKQx AKJxxx xx x
Qxxx AKJxxx xx A
AQxx AKJxxx xx A
KQxx AKJxxx xx A
AKQx AKJxxx xxx ---
KQxx AKJxxx xxx ---

Do you have a plan for all of these hands?

I think a big question here, at least in my mind, is who is cooperating with whom?

[CSGibson]

I like RKC over 4 clubs. I'm assuming that the club bid is a singleton, so the ace of clubs is still important. I hope our partnership has a way of saying 2-with-a-void. 6 spades is easy to bid then, assuming that I'm not partnering a loon who would make the bid with Kxxx AKJxxx Qjx V.

[mikeh]

I don't like 5♠, for reasons no one has yet addressed.

This call forces to slam opposite good trump in context..... so we are forcing to slam opposite, say, AKxx AKJxx QJx x... not a good contract, altho we've all seen sicker dogs live. It also forces to slam opposite KQ10x AKJ10x QJx x, and this is a dog that will not make it.

From West's p.o.v. he surely can play east for the spade A for his 5♠ call, because, it seems to me, it is difficult to construct hands for East, containing the club A, where keycard doesn't solve all problems over 4♥.

It seems to me that from West's pov he should be expecting a hand such as Axxx Qx AKxx xxx, where east wants to be in slam opposite KQxx AKJxx QJx x but not opposite Qxxx AKJxx QJx A, a hand that gives the same keycard answer as the earlier one.

Thus, to me, the worst call is 5♠, since that creates the impression of a better trump suit, and engenders the grand slam try of 6♣.

Over that, 6[DI is misguided only because 5♠ was wrong. If we accept that 5♠ was correct, then 6♦ is okay (I stress: I think it is wrong because it compounds the error of 5♠).

But West is not blame-free. Even opposite Axxx xx AKxx xxx, as an example, 7♠ is not a good spot. We need both majors to behave, which makes it an anti-percentage grand.

[Apollo81]

dburn, on Jan 1 2008, 09:32 AM, said:

I confess, I would have made every bid West did until his final one (I would prefer 6♥). And I would have made every bid East did until his final one (I would prefer 6♠). But the worst call in any grand slam auction missing the ace of trumps is always the final call, so 7♠ narrowly beats 6♦.

Agree with this analysis.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Jan 2 2008, 11:39 AM, said:

I don't like 5♠, for reasons no one has yet addressed.

This call forces to slam opposite good trump in context..... so we are forcing to slam opposite, say, AKxx AKJxx QJx x... not a good contract, altho we've all seen sicker dogs live. It also forces to slam opposite KQ10x AKJ10x QJx x, and this is a dog that will not make it.

Fair enough on the first example, but the second is for one thing barely worth a splinter if at all, and for another surely not worth any cuebid if it has splintered. I mean it looks like you had to put in every possible ten just to convince yourself

Quote

Over that, 6[DI is misguided only because 5♠ was wrong. If we accept that 5♠ was correct, then 6♦ is okay (I stress: I think it is wrong because it compounds the error of 5♠).

Could you expand on this comment? Lets say I believe 5♠ is ok, then why couldn't 6♦ be wrong anyway? East should only make that bid if he believes a grand is still possible that west isn't bidding on his own anyway, which is not the case here IMO.

[Echognome]

jdonn, on Jan 2 2008, 09:28 AM, said:

Could you expand on this comment? Lets say I believe 5♠ is ok, then why couldn't 6♦ be wrong anyway? East should only make that bid if he believes a grand is still possible that west isn't bidding on his own anyway, which is not the case here IMO.

This is exactly the question I was wondering.

Will West bid grand with the same hand holding the ♠A over 5♠?

If so, then 6♦ is *clearly* wrong.

[keylime]

I think 6♣ is a much worse call than 5♠. You're staring at KQ of trumps and pard's made an aggressive slam with the Q of hearts working in principle. Bidding what you've already shown doesn't help pard, as much as bidding 6♥ to confuse pard on which contract to play in.

The splinter isn't that bad of a call.

[whereagles]

I think 5♠ can only be understood as bad trumps in this situation. I can't see what else it should mean.... Thus West should bid 6♠, at the very best.

Still 5♠ is a VERY DANGEROUS bid if it's undiscussed. It seems as if West didn't in fact understood it.

[Echognome]

whereagles, on Jan 2 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

I think 5♠ can only be understood as bad trumps in this situation. I can't see what else it should mean.... Thus West should bid 6♠, at the very best.

Still 5♠ is a VERY DANGEROUS bid if it's undiscussed. It seems as if West didn't in fact understood it.

I think West *did* understand it.

The issues as far as I can see are:

1) What constitutes good trumps in this this auction? Should West be thinking two of the top three honors only? What about, e.g. AT9x? KT9x?

2) Should East take control and keycard? Can he handle any response? Should West show a "useful void" when he has already splintered? Does it matter how many keycards he has for showing this useful void? Given that he has two keycards and the Q, should he show it as two plus the queeen or two and a useful void?

2) Since West has good trump honors, should he cooperate with East over 5♠ in case East is searching for grand? Why didn't East keycard? Over 6♦ does the sixth heart justify a leap to grand? (4♥ showed 2/3 top honors) What would 6♥ promis in context? Is it LTTC for grand?

3) Since West has shown good trumps, should East cooperate for a grand? East's hand has grown significantly on this auction with all of his points working. Would West be able to bid the grand on his own with AKQx AKJxxx xxx ---?

[whereagles]

Echognome, on Jan 2 2008, 07:12 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jan 2 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

Still 5♠ is a VERY DANGEROUS bid if it's undiscussed. It seems as if West didn't in fact understood it.

I think West *did* understand it.

Then I don't understand 6♣...