[LanderBG]

I want to know what is the proper way to respond after partner opens 1 in minors when you hold:

1. 4♥ - 4♠
2. 5♥ - 5♠
3. 5♥ - 4♠
4. 4♥ - 5♠


Tnanks in advance.

[Walddk]

1. 1♥, lowest of two 4 card suits.
2. 1♠, highest of two 5 card suits.
3. 1♥, longest suit first.
4. 1♠, longest suit first.

Roland

[LanderBG]

Walddk, on Dec 31 2007, 06:56 AM, said:

1. 1♥, lowest of two 4 card suits.
2. 1♠, highest of two 5 card suits.
3. 1♥, longest suit first.
4. 1♠, longest suit first.

Roland

Thank you very much!

[jtfanclub]

LanderBG, on Dec 31 2007, 06:28 AM, said:

I want to know what is the proper way to respond after partner opens 1 in minors when you hold:

1. 4♥ - 4♠
2. 5♥ - 5♠
3. 5♥ - 4♠
4. 4♥ - 5♠


Tnanks in advance.

I agree Walddk's is standard. If you're playing with a regular partner, you may prefer to have #4 start with 1♥ with strong hands and 1♠ with weak hands, so....

1♣-1♥-2♣-2♠ is forcing, 4 hearts, 5 spades
1♣-1♠-2♣-2♥ is nonforcing, 4 or 5 hearts, 5 spades
1♣-1♠-2♣-3♥ is forcing, 5 hearts, 5 spades

Otherwise, it can make certain auctions difficult.

[Elianna]

jtfanclub, on Dec 31 2007, 05:12 AM, said:

LanderBG, on Dec 31 2007, 06:28 AM, said:

I want to know what is the proper way to respond after partner opens 1 in minors when you hold:

1. 4♥ - 4♠
2. 5♥ - 5♠
3. 5♥ - 4♠
4. 4♥ - 5♠


Tnanks in advance.

I agree Walddk's is standard. If you're playing with a regular partner, you may prefer to have #4 start with 1♥ with strong hands and 1♠ with weak hands, so....

1♣-1♥-2♣-2♠ is forcing, 4 hearts, 5 spades
1♣-1♠-2♣-2♥ is nonforcing, 4 or 5 hearts, 5 spades
1♣-1♠-2♣-3♥ is forcing, 5 hearts, 5 spades

Otherwise, it can make certain auctions difficult.

It may be too early in the morning and I may be missing something, but what do you do with the GF hands and 5♥+4♠ if you do this inversion on #4?

[SoTired]

jtfanclub, on Dec 31 2007, 08:12 AM, said:

LanderBG, on Dec 31 2007, 06:28 AM, said:

I want to know what is the proper way to respond after partner opens 1 in minors when you hold:

1. 4♥ - 4♠
2. 5♥ - 5♠
3. 5♥ - 4♠
4. 4♥ - 5♠


Tnanks in advance.

I agree Walddk's is standard. If you're playing with a regular partner, you may prefer to have #4 start with 1♥ with strong hands and 1♠ with weak hands, so....

1♣-1♥-2♣-2♠ is forcing, 4 hearts, 5 spades
1♣-1♠-2♣-2♥ is nonforcing, 4 or 5 hearts, 5 spades
1♣-1♠-2♣-3♥ is forcing, 5 hearts, 5 spades

Otherwise, it can make certain auctions difficult.

This is a common falacy. Thinking that you should Manufacture a reverse to show strength. This is wrong. A reverse always promises that the first suit is longer than the second suit. The second suit is never longer nor even equal in length to the first suit.

The extra strength allows you to bid your suits in their proper order: Longest first.

[jtfanclub]

Elianna, on Dec 31 2007, 08:50 AM, said:

It may be too early in the morning and I may be missing something, but what do you do with the GF hands and 5♥+4♠ if you do this inversion on #4?

Usually the appropriate # of NT. Part of the concept is that there's no reason to show a 5th heart (partner won't bid 2♣ with 3) or 4 spades...leave it unknown.

Over 1NT, you can use 2♦ new minor forcing to show the 5 hearts while still concealing the spades with weak hands.

Quote

This is a common falacy. Thinking that you should Manufacture a reverse to show strength.

I don't propose springing it on unfamiliar partners. I do think having

1♣-1♠-2♣-2♥

as nonforcing is a very useful tool, and it requires the change to #4.

[cherdano]

I agree with Roland (of course), and disagree with jt's recommendation.

[SoTired]

jtfanclub, on Dec 31 2007, 08:58 AM, said:

1♣-1♠-2♣-2♥

as nonforcing is a very useful tool, and it requires the change to #4.

The standard meaning of 1C-1S-2C-2H is forcing. Some players define that auction non-forcing and use the unbid minor to create an artificial force. Opener is then expected to bid a 4-card heart suit.

I have never heard of any non-canape system where you respond 1H to 1m with 4♥+5♠.

What system is that? Could you provide a reference?

[inquiry]

cherdano, on Dec 31 2007, 09:20 AM, said:

I agree with Roland (of course), and disagree with jt's recommendation.

I agree with cherdano.

For what it is worth, there is a school of thought that believes with WEAK hands and 4+♥ and 5+♠'s to bid 2♥ over 1 of a minor. This is called "reverse flannery by responder" and use of it makes a 1♠ response to a minor followed by a 2♥ rebid surely forcing further reducing the need for JT's rather unusual canape treatment.

[bhall]

One exceptional case is worth noting: Very weak hands with 4♥ and 5♠, short in the opened minor, can take only one bid. To avoid playing in a 6-1 (or 5-1) fit when an 8-card ♥ fit is available, it is permissible to respond 1♥.

I believe that some European partnerships use 1♣-2♦ and 1♦-2♥ to show hands of this type.

[pclayton]

inquiry, on Dec 31 2007, 06:52 AM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 31 2007, 09:20 AM, said:

I agree with Roland (of course), and disagree with jt's recommendation.

I agree with cherdano.

For what it is worth, there is a school of thought that believes with WEAK hands and 4+♥ and 5+♠'s to bid 2♥ over 1 of a minor. This is called "reverse flannery by responder" and use of it makes a 1♠ response to a minor followed by a 2♥ rebid surely forcing further reducing the need for JT's rather unusual canape treatment.

Agree here too.

Another 'fix' for pairs that don't play reverse flannery is to bid 5-5 majors up the line (instead of 1♠ 1st). That way, you can still find the NINE card heart fit, that gets buried after a 2 minor rebid.

[han]

I don't like the expert opinions offered in this thread. They are too difficult for me so I stick with Roland's advice.