[apalma]

♠A98
♥983
♦Q63
♣AT42

all vul
imps

the auction was:
4♥-pass(we)-pass-4♠
5♥-???

if you bid 5 spades explain why
if you pass explain why and chose your opening lead and justify
if you doble explain why and chose your opening lead and justify

thx

antónio Palma

[jtfanclub]

I'm sure not passing....

I think there's only 19 total tricks, so I'm going to X. It's IMPs, so I don't feel bad if we get 500 and we could have gotten 650.

[CSGibson]

I'm doubling on values here, as I do not have a strong offensive hand.

[Fluffy]

Double as well, sadly no forcing pass avaible this time .

Partner is under pressure, bidding 5 would punnish him for being agressive.

I lead a heart.

[whereagles]

gonzalo, u da man

[Fluffy]

whereagles, on Dec 26 2007, 09:24 PM, said:

gonzalo, u da man

Correction, I am now da pedantic man, just read the BIL.

[helene_t]

Agree with Gonzalo.

[FrancesHinden]

You have too much stuff to pass.
In order to decide whether to bid or double you need to look at the 5H bidder. That is a really, really, unusual action - particularly in front of partner.

If a good player bid 5H, I would believe them - they have a very, very unusual hand, and I would bid 5S.

If a random player bid 5H I would double. They have a 4H opening and just don't want to defend.

[dburn]

The only time I ever saw this auction (I wasn't at the table) the man who bid 4♥ and then 5♥ was Tony Forrester. It was still right to double him, though it was optional whether you looked at him first.

[ArtK78]

How can I not double with these cards? Admittedly, the auction is strange. But partner said he had something and I have two aces. The double does not prevent partner from bidding again, although it is unlikely that he will do so.

I can't pass, and bidding seems wrong with two aces.

[pclayton]

Double seems obvious, and partner can pull to 5♠, although in practice this never happens.

[rogerclee]

I don't see why 5H is necessarily a very unusual hand. 5H just means that he was always willing to bid up to 5H, but wanted to buy it in 4--either that, or they play that opening 5H is a slam ask for the AK of trumps.

--- KQJTxxxx x Qxxx

Wouldn't you open 4H? Wouldn't you bid 5H?

Anyway, I double now. I'm not interested in hanging partner, especially when they're vulnerable.

[jdonn]

rogerclee, on Dec 28 2007, 03:41 PM, said:

--- KQJTxxxx x Qxxx

Wouldn't you open 4H? Wouldn't you bid 5H?

Yes, and OMG no!!!!!

I do agree with double now. Simple process of elimination. There is no way I'm bidding 5♠ but I feel the need to do something.

I would lead ace of spades.

[CSGibson]

rogerclee, on Dec 28 2007, 12:41 PM, said:

I don't see why 5H is necessarily a very unusual hand. 5H just means that he was always willing to bid up to 5H, but wanted to buy it in 4--either that, or they play that opening 5H is a slam ask for the AK of trumps.

--- KQJTxxxx x Qxxx

Wouldn't you open 4H? Wouldn't you bid 5H?

Anyway, I double now. I'm not interested in hanging partner, especially when they're vulnerable.

Actually, I held a hand last night that I opened 4 hearts at favorable vul, where I would have gone to 5.

Scoring: MP

Pass-Pass-4♥

---

I think any hand with AKQ or maybe AKJ of hearts 8 times should be willing to go at favorable vul, with it usually being the right decision, especially after partner is a passed hand.

[whereagles]

jdonn, on Dec 28 2007, 10:10 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Dec 28 2007, 03:41 PM, said:

--- KQJTxxxx x Qxxx

Wouldn't you open 4H? Wouldn't you bid 5H?

Yes, and OMG no!!!!!

Why omg no? There are hands where first you try to steal the pot in 4♥, then, if that doesn't work, you take a save in 5♥. This one's pretty close to it, though I'd prefer QJTx of clubs.

[neilkaz]

I have a flat hand with two bullets but no guarantee that the ace of ♠ makes. However, there's less guarantee that 5♠ (possibly X'd) makes.

Flat hand, two aces, I double 5♥ as I expect it is a favorite to be set, and I expect 5♠ is not a favorite to make.

However, I could be wrong here .. neilkaz ..

[ArtK78]

whereagles, on Dec 29 2007, 08:52 AM, said:

jdonn, on Dec 28 2007, 10:10 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Dec 28 2007, 03:41 PM, said:

--- KQJTxxxx x Qxxx

Wouldn't you open 4H? Wouldn't you bid 5H?

Yes, and OMG no!!!!!

Why omg no? There are hands where first you try to steal the pot in 4♥, then, if that doesn't work, you take a save in 5♥. This one's pretty close to it, though I'd prefer QJTx of clubs.

There are several reasons.

First, your original preempt may have pushed them to the wrong spot, and you are about to go plus (or a lesser minus than you might otherwise suffer).

Second, your opps might have a slam but your preempt made it difficult for them to find it. If you bid again, you give them a "fielder's choice" - they have the option of ways to get a good score. They can double you or bid on. If you give them two shots in an auction like this, the odds go up that they will decide correctly.

Third, your original 4♥ preempt was not without some risk - you might be going for a large number. That is not to say it was wrong, just that it had some risk. Bidding again increases the risk significantly. It would have been better to open 5♥ originally than to open 4♥ and bid hearts again (not that I am advocating an opening 5♥ bid on these cards).

It might be right to bid again. Anything is possible. But it is highly unlikely to be right.

[jdonn]

whereagles, on Dec 29 2007, 08:52 AM, said:

jdonn, on Dec 28 2007, 10:10 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Dec 28 2007, 03:41 PM, said:

--- KQJTxxxx x Qxxx

Wouldn't you open 4H? Wouldn't you bid 5H?

Yes, and OMG no!!!!!

Why omg no? There are hands where first you try to steal the pot in 4♥, then, if that doesn't work, you take a save in 5♥. This one's pretty close to it, though I'd prefer QJTx of clubs.

whereagles, on Dec 29 2007, 08:49 AM, said:

I hope I get to play a lot vs you.

BTW I was (clearly) referring to his actual example, not to the auction in general. Reading posts before responding to them is often helpful!

[whereagles]

yeah, but you know that reading posts is hard!!!!

[whereagles]

ArtK78, on Dec 29 2007, 04:48 PM, said:

1. First, your original preempt may have pushed them to the wrong spot, and you are about to go plus (or a lesser minus than you might otherwise suffer).

2. Second, your opps might have a slam but your preempt made it difficult for them to find it. If you bid again, you give them a "fielder's choice" - they have the option of ways to get a good score. They can double you or bid on. If you give them two shots in an auction like this, the odds go up that they will decide correctly.

3. Third, your original 4♥ preempt was not without some risk - you might be going for a large number. That is not to say it was wrong, just that it had some risk. Bidding again increases the risk significantly. It would have been better to open 5♥ originally than to open 4♥ and bid hearts again (not that I am advocating an opening 5♥ bid on these cards).

4. It might be right to bid again. Anything is possible. But it is highly unlikely to be right.

1. That's obvious, but if you take that idea too far, you'll NEVER bid again after a pree. While it's true that usually preemptor sits quietly ever after, there are exceptions.

2. If they have a slam, re-preempt will make it HARDER to reach it. (At least I think so.)

3. Hands that try to steal the pot in 4♥ and then bid one more have the playing strength to the 5 level, so that's not an issue. Actually, in this hand II might pass because I don't like the club holding. But if it were QJTx, I'd definitely bid one more.

4. Well.... I don't think so.