[Blofeld]

Halo, on Dec 17 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

4H

I don't find that 3H preempts anyone when it matters.

So do you never open 3♥? This seems a pretty bizarre statement.

I think 3♥ is normal. It isn't the paragon of a 3♥ bid, but it's a lot closer to that than it is to anything else.

[Apollo81]

Halo, on Dec 17 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

4H

I don't find that 3H preempts anyone when it matters.

I find that 1♣ has some preemptive effect

[ArtK78]

Apollo81, on Dec 17 2007, 03:35 PM, said:

Halo, on Dec 17 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

4H

I don't find that 3H preempts anyone when it matters.

I find that 1♣ has some preemptive effect

Yes, it stops all those passers from crowding the bidding.

[Halo]

Apollo81, on Dec 17 2007, 03:35 PM, said:

Halo, on Dec 17 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

4H

I don't find that 3H preempts anyone when it matters.

I find that 1♣ has some preemptive effect

I agree. I like to open weak hands with long club suits.

Doesn't have a lot to do with a fistful of hearts missing AK.

Somehow I find that 3H is the three level preemptive equivalent of a weak two diamonds. If it's your hand you would have had it anyway. If it's their hand, you boost them into close games.

Given any excuse I will bid 4H, and lose the golden opportunity for +140.

[han]

Or you miss an opportunity for a not-so-bad -200 or -500. But what's an extra 300 among friends!

[dake50]

Plainly a 1S opener. If raised, promote to 4H. Not 2H is enough.

[sheepman]

Halo, on Dec 17 2007, 10:01 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Dec 17 2007, 03:35 PM, said:

Halo, on Dec 17 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

4H

I don't find that 3H preempts anyone when it matters.

I find that 1♣ has some preemptive effect

I agree. I like to open weak hands with long club suits.

Doesn't have a lot to do with a fistful of hearts missing AK.

Somehow I find that 3H is the three level preemptive equivalent of a weak two diamonds. If it's your hand you would have had it anyway. If it's their hand, you boost them into close games.

Given any excuse I will bid 4H, and lose the golden opportunity for +140.

Time to wander off topic, I can't let people go around abusing 2♦ openers like that.

2♦ is a good pre-empt. RHO doubles with his (43)24 16 count, partner bumps it, RHO bids the wrong major. They can't bid at the one level or open 2♣ or 2♦ if they use that as benji, multi or something precsionish. Pard has a void and the opps both have 13 counts, -250 when they have 26 combined isn't generally bad. LHO has a diamond stack and a 20 count, bet he's real happy when you open 2♦, can't pass its unlikely his partner has the values to re-open and is a bit stuck and ends jumping to 3N but pard has the rest of the deck. LHO has clubs, but his partner can't raise below 3NT. LHO has a 3=3=4=3 20 count with 4 small ♦, what does he do? You say it boosts the oponents into close games, if I'm playing IMPS my oponents bid their close games anyway, team-mates bid them aswell, and if it's very thin why are you complaining, surely your ahead in the long run but you will get the occasional 12 out compared to the frequent 5-7 in.

Compare this to a 2♥ pre-empt which is a transfer to spades.

Closer towards the topic:

Opening 3♥ is also a good pre-empt, they can't bid a minor below 3NT and lots of other reasons which mostly aren't specific to 3♥ but pre-empts in general.

On topic:

3♥, If you wait for KQJT9xx and a 7321 shape to pre-empt I want to play against you for money, and if you open this 4H i'll only play if its not pivot.

[whereagles]

To me this is a 4♥ wtp, followed by dbl if opps bid on

[helene_t]

Apollo81, on Dec 17 2007, 10:35 PM, said:

I find that 1♣ has some preemptive effect

It shouldn't have. In direct seat opps get dbl instead of 1♣, so the number of options are unchanged. Besides, if you open 1♣ in 2nd/3rd seat you give RHO an option to bid even if his p passes. So the preemptive effect of 1♣ is negative.

OTOH if 1♣ suggests something different from pass then it may alter opps bidding strategy to something less efficient.

[jdeegan]

2♥ (if you still play old-fashioned [i.e. 6-bagger] weak twos) is a possibility assuming you think you are too heavy for 3♥. You are only fibbing about the deuce of hearts as opposed to an extra black king.