[jtfanclub]

Scoring: IMP

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Contract is 5♥

So, opening lead is a club...

Take the first club perforce, heart to the ace, club ruffed, and now...

I ended up leading the jack of diamonds. Worked wonders when the diamond was offside, but even if it had been on it gives me several shots. Looking back, I still can't find a better way to play it.

Is there actually a name for that play? Never tried it before.

[jdonn]

What did you gain? They will just return a diamond and back you are stuck in dummy again.... it looks like at the point you reached the choice is between AK and a diamond, or exiting spade and hoping the diamond is onside. Your play would be reasonable if your diamonds were 9xx.

I believe the technical term for your play is a "duck".

[kenberg]

I'm not sure what the best line is, but it seems that if you are going to duck a diamond it is better to do it at trick 2. As longs as the reds are splitting this gives you six hearts, four diamonds, one club for contract. Of course they may be able to take three first, but it seems like a reasonable shot. As jdonn mentions, if you play heart to South and ruff a club, and then duck, the diamond win and diamond return gives you trouble.

[helene_t]

Doesn't seem to work if the queen is offside and you guess the spades wrong, or if they get a ♦ ruff.

What's wrong with a heart to the ace followed by a ♦ finesse?

[han]

I don't understand the diamond play either, this only does wonders if the opponents misdefend.

It may be best to play only one trump and take the diamond finesse. Or play as you did, cash AK of diamonds and a third diamond.

[jdonn]

helene_t, on Dec 16 2007, 04:40 PM, said:

Doesn't seem to work if the queen is offside and you guess the spades wrong, or if they get a ♦ ruff.

What's wrong with a heart to the ace followed by a ♦ finesse?

Potentially, that if it loses they will return a club to force dummy to ruff, and you are back where JT was. But I agree it's actually a good play problem. I think I would ruff the club as he did then play AK of diamonds. One benefit is if the diamond queen drops I may well overcome trumps being 4-1 this way. I am open minded about this though, I wonder what the best play truly is.

[whereagles]

indeed. this is a nice, non-trivial problem. helene's line puts some pressure on the defenders (if they don't force dummy, it should be plain sailing), so maybe that's something to try out in practice.

[the hog]

What's wrong with pulling a low S off the board at trick 2? rho may well get it wrong. This also gives you the chance of dropping a S hon eventually. You also have the D hook in reserve.

[ArtK78]

Diamond duck at trick 2 is probably the best play for the contract. Any other play leaves you with tremendous communications problems. Works anytime both red suits split 3-2 and you don't lose 2 spades.

[pclayton]

Art's line of a diamond duck is best I think.

A close second is ♣A, ♥to hand, ♣ruff and now ♦AK, small.

[kfay]

pclayton, on Dec 17 2007, 12:09 AM, said:

Art's line of a diamond duck is best I think.

A close second is ♣A, ♥to hand, ♣ruff and now ♦AK, small.

I'm no expert at these play problems but I think it's a very distant 2nd.

[pclayton]

kfay, on Dec 16 2007, 10:05 PM, said:

pclayton, on Dec 17 2007, 12:09 AM, said:

Art's line of a diamond duck is best I think.

A close second is ♣A, ♥to hand, ♣ruff and now ♦AK, small.

I'm no expert at these play problems but I think it's a very distant 2nd.

Kevin, if you are going to make an assertion like this, at least try to back it up, even if its wrong. Nobody gets anything out of:

Quote

: I'm no expert at these play problems but I think it's a very distant 2nd.

I'll try to play devil's advocate for you:

1. Under Art's line, RHO with ♦Qxx was going to be forced to win an early diamond trick and cannot profitably attack spades. Under my line, its possible LHO could ruff his partner's trick and shoot a spade through.

2. Under my line, its possible that a hand with a doubleton (not Ax) spade could also hold a doubleton diamond and pitch a spade on the 3rd diamond. If LHO holds ♠xx/♦xx, he can get his ♥Jxx (even Jx works, as RHO's 8xx gets promoted) promoted. If RHO holds xx/xx, then he might be able to uppercut our hearts with ♥8x.

On the other hand, Art's line leads to failure when LHO wins a diamond with stiff Q or Qx and plays a spade. It also fails when RHO has a stiff Queen and can get to his partner's hand with the ♠A for a ♦ ruff. Not likely of course.

So on balance, I still like Art's line the best, but I think they are both realistic lines and I haven't seen anything else mentioned thats as good as mine.

[han]

I got something out of it. I thought about it for a second and thought Hmm yeah, I agree that Art's line sure seems much better.

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Dec 17 2007, 10:56 AM, said:

kfay, on Dec 16 2007, 10:05 PM, said:

pclayton, on Dec 17 2007, 12:09 AM, said:

Art's line of a diamond duck is best I think.

A close second is ♣A, ♥to hand, ♣ruff and now ♦AK, small.

I'm no expert at these play problems but I think it's a very distant 2nd.

Kevin, if you are going to make an assertion like this, at least try to back it up, even if its wrong. Nobody gets anything out of:

[...]

So on balance, I still like Art's line the best, but I think they are both realistic lines and I haven't seen anything else mentioned thats as good as mine.

Phil, you are giving someone else lessons on how to post, while at the same time you apparently post twice to the same thread without having read it. The line you call "mine" has been suggested twice before, and the one you call "Art's" was Ken's suggestion.

[ArtK78]

cherdano, on Dec 17 2007, 01:18 PM, said:

Phil, you are giving someone else lessons on how to post, while at the same time you apparently post twice to the same thread without having read it. The line you call "mine" has been suggested twice before, and the one you call "Art's" was Ken's suggestion.

Quite right about credit for "my" line. Ken suggested the diamond duck, if made at all, should be made at trick 2. I merely elaborated on that suggestion by pointing out that it is probably the best line of play on the hand.

[pclayton]

cherdano, on Dec 17 2007, 10:18 AM, said:

pclayton, on Dec 17 2007, 10:56 AM, said:

kfay, on Dec 16 2007, 10:05 PM, said:

pclayton, on Dec 17 2007, 12:09 AM, said:

Art's line of a diamond duck is best I think.

A close second is ♣A, ♥to hand, ♣ruff and now ♦AK, small.

I'm no expert at these play problems but I think it's a very distant 2nd.

Kevin, if you are going to make an assertion like this, at least try to back it up, even if its wrong. Nobody gets anything out of:

[...]

So on balance, I still like Art's line the best, but I think they are both realistic lines and I haven't seen anything else mentioned thats as good as mine.

Phil, you are giving someone else lessons on how to post, while at the same time you apparently post twice to the same thread without having read it. The line you call "mine" has been suggested twice before, and the one you call "Art's" was Ken's suggestion.

Arend:

Does "mine" imply I originated it? I meant "mine" as the way "I" would play it. If "mine" does not mean that, or I need to give credit to someone else then I stand corrected.

I also didn't see Kenberg's suggestion before Art's. Whatever.

Kevin should understand that as an advancing player he should be trying to work out these problems instead of making a baseless claim about a line of play. I'm not his mother but (I think) he respects my opinion, but if he doesn't care about what I think it should come from him and not you.

[han]

LOL

[kenberg]

If I prove the Riemann Hypothesis (probably the most famous unsolved math problem now that Wiles has taken care of Fermat's Last Theorem) I will demand proper credit. I think I will hold off on the lawsuit over the diamond duck.

[cherdano]

kenberg, on Dec 17 2007, 04:10 PM, said:

When I prove the Riemann Hypothesis (probably the most famous unsolved math problem now that Wiles has taken care of Fermat's Last Theorem) I will demand proper credit. I think I will hold off on the lawsuit over the diamond duck.

Fixed that for you.

[whereagles]

Goldbach's conjecture > Riemann's hypothesis