[1eyedjack]

Scoring: IMP

N...............E.......S.....W
1N(12-14)..3S....4H..End

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Opposite a pickup partner you lead the ten of Spades, overtaken by partner's Jack which wins. East continues with the Ace and King of Spades, South following each time.

I am interested in opinions as to the order of West's discards that is most likely to elicit an immediate 4th round of Spades to ensure defeating the contract. Would it make a difference if you are with your regular partner?

[dburn]

Would pitch a discouraging club and a suit-preference jack of diamonds, in that order. Best not to pitch two cards from the same suit; idiot partner may then try to give you a ruff in that suit.

[whereagles]

Disc ♣Q, ♦J. That should be enuff for pard to continue spadezz

[1eyedjack]

Thanks. I didn't want to throw an honour on the first discard, because I was not sure that we had 3 cashing Spade tricks at that point. When declarer follows to the third Spade however that does look like the time to do something spectacular.

[beatrix45]

What? Me worry? I don't see any reason to get cute. Just play my smallest diamond followed by my smallest club. Pard will then know my 4 or 5 HCP's do not include an ace, so the trump promotion has to be the only chance for another trick. I'm concerned that a 'wake up call' play will only confuse a good partner since the trump promotion is the best logical alternative.

[skjaeran]

whereagles, on Nov 30 2007, 01:55 PM, said:

Disc ♣Q, ♦J. That should be enuff for pard to continue spadezz

You can only do this if you know at trick two that partner will win three ♠ tricks and allow you to make two discards. If not, you can't afford the ♣Q discard.

This can be done if partner signals his ♠ length with the card he leads to the 2nd trick, for example the K (the odd card) might show an odd number of spades and the ace an even number. Whether this should be original or present count you have to agree with your partner.

[1eyedjack]

beatrix45, on Dec 1 2007, 06:24 AM, said:

What? Me worry? I don't see any reason to get cute. Just play my smallest diamond followed by my smallest club. Pard will then know my 4 or 5 HCP's do not include an ace, so the trump promotion has to be the only chance for another trick. I'm concerned that a 'wake up call' play will only confuse a good partner since the trump promotion is the best logical alternative.

What if partner has an Ace?

[TheoKole]

J ♦ and Q ♣ in that order I think.

The Q of clubs on the third trick once we are sure that there are 3 cashing spades.

This should work for a regular or pick-up partner.

Theo

[whereagles]

skaeran, on Dec 1 2007, 07:11 AM, said:

whereagles, on Nov 30 2007, 01:55 PM, said:

Disc ♣Q, ♦J. That should be enuff for pard to continue spadezz

You can only do this if you know at trick two that partner will win three ♠ tricks and allow you to make two discards. If not, you can't afford the ♣Q discard.

Allright, then disc ♦J first

[beatrix45]

1eyedjack, on Dec 1 2007, 02:30 AM, said:

beatrix45, on Dec 1 2007, 06:24 AM, said:

What? Me worry? I don't see any reason to get cute.  Just play my smallest diamond followed by my smallest club.  Pard will then know my 4 or 5 HCP's do not include an ace, so the trump promotion has to be the only chance for another trick.  I'm concerned that a 'wake up call' play will only confuse a good partner since the trump promotion is the best logical alternative.

What if partner has an Ace?

Do you mean what would I discard if I had an ace? Well, I discard a big spot card in that suit.

Do you mean what if partner has the ace of clubs or hearts? Well, I think the uppercut is still the setting trick even if declarer discards his stiff club on the fourth spade. Of course, partner can cash his ace first, I suppose. He has no reason to believe there is an uppercut available, it's just the only chance left.

I guess I'd rather payoff to declarer's rare club void than confuse partner.

[pclayton]

This is an ideal hand for an alarm-clock signal. You can't do it on the 2nd spade however. I don't play pards differention between the A-K and the K-A as count - I play it as suit-preference.

Unless pard has the AC, we probably aren't getting a minor trick since I'm getting squoze in the minors.

I think the JD and the QC are both good candidates to get a 4th spade. By the way, I think I prefer discards from two different suits. If I pitch low club, QC, won't pard think I might have a dub club and try to give me a ruff there?

Accordingly, I think the most effective order is a discouraging club and the JD in that order. This also gives us the best chance for -2.

[1eyedjack]

beatrix45, on Dec 6 2007, 03:02 AM, said:

1eyedjack, on Dec 1 2007, 02:30 AM, said:

beatrix45, on Dec 1 2007, 06:24 AM, said:

What? Me worry? I don't see any reason to get cute.  Just play my smallest diamond followed by my smallest club.  Pard will then know my 4 or 5 HCP's do not include an ace, so the trump promotion has to be the only chance for another trick.  I'm concerned that a 'wake up call' play will only confuse a good partner since the trump promotion is the best logical alternative.

What if partner has an Ace?

Do you mean what would I discard if I had an ace? Well, I discard a big spot card in that suit.

Do you mean what if partner has the ace of clubs or hearts? Well, I think the uppercut is still the setting trick even if declarer discards his stiff club on the fourth spade. Of course, partner can cash his ace first, I suppose. He has no reason to believe there is an uppercut available, it's just the only chance left.

I guess I'd rather payoff to declarer's rare club void than confuse partner.

Yup, that's what happened at my table: Partner had the Ace of clubs and cashed it, not appreciating the importance of the immediate trump promotion. Only it didn't cash, so contract made. To be fair to partner I did not make it obvious to him that attempting to cash the Club Ace was a bad idea, hence this thread.

[beatrix45]

1eyedjack, on Dec 6 2007, 01:54 AM, said:

beatrix45, on Dec 6 2007, 03:02 AM, said:

1eyedjack, on Dec 1 2007, 02:30 AM, said:

beatrix45, on Dec 1 2007, 06:24 AM, said:

What? Me worry? I don't see any reason to get cute.  Just play my smallest diamond followed by my smallest club.  Pard will then know my 4 or 5 HCP's do not include an ace, so the trump promotion has to be the only chance for another trick.  I'm concerned that a 'wake up call' play will only confuse a good partner since the trump promotion is the best logical alternative.

What if partner has an Ace?

Do you mean what would I discard if I had an ace? Well, I discard a big spot card in that suit.

Do you mean what if partner has the ace of clubs or hearts? Well, I think the uppercut is still the setting trick even if declarer discards his stiff club on the fourth spade. Of course, partner can cash his ace first, I suppose. He has no reason to believe there is an uppercut available, it's just the only chance left.

I guess I'd rather payoff to declarer's rare club void than confuse partner.

Yup, that's what happened at my table: Partner had the Ace of clubs and cashed it, not appreciating the importance of the immediate trump promotion. Only it didn't cash, so contract made. To be fair to partner I did not make it obvious to him that attempting to cash the Club Ace was a bad idea, hence this thread.

Maybe some 'wake up' wild carding would have diverted partner to go for the uppercut right away, but I really don't see how. Stuff like that plays better in the post mortems, and imho those kind of post mortems are for losers.

[jdonn]

beatrix45, on Dec 6 2007, 12:30 PM, said:

Maybe some 'wake up' wild carding would have diverted partner to go for the uppercut right away, but I really don't see how. Stuff like that plays better in the post mortems, and imho those kind of post mortems are for losers.

You think the 2 of diamonds then the Q of clubs won't wake up partner to promote a trump!?! It works during the hand for losers like me!

[beatrix45]

It just came to me. Discarding a low club followed by another low club denies the club ace and gives count - probably five since four are in the dummy. - even better would be the club Q the second time as suggested by jdonn - attitude folllowed by count + wake up call.

Bravo, jdonn!

[Wackojack]

I was idiot partner. Here was the chat after:

1eyedjack: interesting hand
wackojack: sp could i have read that 1?
naes: wpp
1eyedjack: possibly worthy of a post
1eyedjack: dont know p
athgarvan: yes, where was extra trick?
1eyedjack: I needed a 4th spade, not sure how to get it
wackojack: trump promo
wackojack: without the !c ace we would have defeated it

[beatrix45]

Wackojack, on Dec 6 2007, 10:52 AM, said:

I was idiot partner. Here was the chat after:

1eyedjack: interesting hand
wackojack: sp could i have read that 1?
naes: wpp
1eyedjack: possibly worthy of a post
1eyedjack: dont know p
athgarvan: yes, where was extra trick?
1eyedjack: I needed a 4th spade, not sure how to get it
wackojack: trump promo
wackojack: without the !c ace we would have defeated it

Well, u da man! Tell us, what would a small club followed by the club queen done for you? I think it might well have worked with jdonn's regular partners. I think this is a good lesson hand for us ordinary mortals.

[1eyedjack]

For the record I don't rate p the eejit on that hand. It is up to me to signal.