[Rossoneri]

Scoring: XIMP

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Bidding went P-2C(Precision style)-4D-P-P-4H-P-P-5D-P-P-X-AP

Should S have X 4D? (Undiscussed)

Should S have pushed on instead of a penalty X?

[Codo]

yes

yes surely

[FrancesHinden]

maybe (there's an argument for playing this double as penalties opposite a precision 2C)

yes, South should definitely bid on, he has 4-card heart support opposite a partner who has promised a 6-5. (Move the ace of spades and 5H and 5D are both making)

[Walddk]

South has the perfect hand for a negative double although ♦Q is almost certainly wasted. A minimum yes, but he knows that they have a fit, perhaps even two. 2♣ is either 6+ clubs or 5+ clubs plus a 4-card major.

Many don't play negative doubles this high (fair enough), but that is no excuse for not bidding 5♥ over West's 5♦. The auction has revealed that NS have a double fit, and then it seems wrong, especially at this vulnerability, to defend.

North's auction suggests that he is very close to a strong 1♣ opening and that he has a lot of shape (likely 5-6 in hearts and clubs).

South can't even be sure that 5♦ goes down when he doubles. If 5♥ doesn't make, 5♦ will, so there is no alternative to bidding 5♥ now.

Roland

[Rossoneri]

Thanks a lot!

I knew I was asleep but I didn't know I was THAT asleep!

-11.8 imps, so that's a lot of damage if we had made 5 or 6♥

[skjaeran]

Jlall, on Nov 22 2007, 07:31 PM, said:

I would pass the south hand over 4D, the hand is very weak and partner is limited. I would definitely bid on over 5D though, there isn't even any guarantee of beating 5D and you could certainly make 5H with such good holdings in partners suits

I agree with this.

[gwnn]

OK this is probably the noobiest question on BBF ever, but how standard is to open 2♣ with a side 5cM?

[skjaeran]

gwnn, on Nov 22 2007, 08:53 PM, said:

OK this is probably the noobiest question on BBF ever, but how standard is to open 2♣ with a side 5cM?

That's quite OK for some and an abomination for some. I'd say that a large majority of strong clubbers would open the OP hand 1♥.

[mr1303]

With 6 clubs, particularly if headed by the AK, it is automatic. Open your longest suit someone once told me....

The idea is that you then bid hearts strongly later on, so that partner knows you are 6-5.

[jdonn]

gwnn, on Nov 22 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

OK this is probably the noobiest question on BBF ever, but how standard is to open 2♣ with a side 5cM?

I think opening a standard 1♣ is fine but a precision 2♣ is not good. That opening gets passed out a LOT, and here we need almost nothing for game.

[neilkaz]

skaeran, on Nov 22 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 22 2007, 07:31 PM, said:

I would pass the south hand over 4D, the hand is very weak and partner is limited. I would definitely bid on over 5D though, there isn't even any guarantee of beating 5D and you could certainly make 5H with such good holdings in partners suits

I agree with this.

As do I... nice problem here .. neilkaz ..

[mikeh]

jdonn, on Nov 22 2007, 03:19 PM, said:

gwnn, on Nov 22 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

OK this is probably the noobiest question on BBF ever, but how standard is to open 2♣ with a side 5cM?

I think opening a standard 1♣ is fine but a precision 2♣ is not good. That opening gets passed out a LOT, and here we need almost nothing for game.

I agree with part of this, but with a grand total of xx in the blacks and only 13 hcp, the odds seem reasonably good that 2♣ isn't going to go all float.. and, if it does, that isn't always going to be bad news. Plus, if I assume that it will not go all pass, then I am definitely far better placed having started 2♣ than having started 1♥. The only exception is if the auction gets to 4♠ very quickly: but then, if I open 2♣, I bid 4N (not minors: clubs plus a red suit.. partner doesn't bid beyond 5♣ unless he prefers both reds to clubs). While if I open 1♥ and then bid 5♣, he will often go wrong anyway, so I think this one is a wash, and on all other sequences, 2♣ is probably a better start.

[lilboyman]

Absent agreement that a double of 4 Ds is for the majors with values, I would guess that S is worried that a X might be taken for penalty and so pass is not so bad. Certainly, the double of 5 D is wrong if partner is showing 6/5 in Clubs & Hearts. Probably, 5 H is S's best call. But after pass by S , with a 4 loser hand in the N after E preempt and W advancing it, I thing N should bid 5 H. His guess is better informed than S.

[fanny4]

I don't see how South can pass with this hand. Dbl at the 4 level is neither penalty nor pure negative, but just general values. 10pts is pretty much at the low end, especially in view of the limited Precision opening.

When North bids 4H, almost certainly showing a 5-6 hand, it is crazy for South not to bid 5H.

[keylime]

South should not double but bid. In canape it's a heart followed by clubs so I get the strain into focus - in standardized Precision I'd open 2♣ followed by a lotta hearts. I can bid 4NT for another place to play if needed.