[extras]

AKQT7
T
KQJ3
976

vs

9832
KQJ5
A65
A5

Our effort was
1S 2NT
3H 4C
4S float.

[mike777]

Excellent post very common problem

extras, on Nov 20 2007, 03:46 PM, said:

AKQT7
T
KQJ3
976

vs

9832
KQJ5
A65
A5

Our effort was
1S 2NT
3H 4C
4S float.

1) prefer to show my good second suit D than my short h but let's live with 3h for now.
2) now over 4c....bidding 4d seems very clear

[ArtK78]

There are two ways to improve upon this result. One is for North to cue bid diamonds over the 4♣ bid. If you absolutely refuse to cue bid a second round control as your first cue bid, then your alternative is to bid 4NT over 4♣. You have a 5 loser hand (which is much better than minimum) opposite a hand that forced to game and then cue bid. It is certainly worth more than a 4♠ bid.

If you bid 4NT, you get a two key card response, which is certainly sufficient for a small slam. The only question remains whether you should be playing in spades or in notrump. You do not have the answer to that question. If you bid 6♠ and your partner cannot move over that, you are probably in the right spot.

The interesting question is whether the South hand was actually worth a cue bid at his second turn to call. Opposite a heart singleton, the South hand is not worth that much. I doubt that I would have bid 4♣ with just two working cards and four trump. But, once South chooses to cue bid (which I consider to be an overbid) North should move ahead. North might have enough to move ahead over a 4♠ bid by South, but that is another question.

[han]

This is an easy hand, 4S is just wrong.

[neilkaz]

You have 15 HCP and a stiff and good playing strength and PD Q-bid 4♣ so a 4♦ Q-bid seems clear to me.

If you don't like that, just bid 4NT.

[jdonn]

I think south in fact did well to even cuebid. All north here.

[kenrexford]

I just checked to be safe. Not B/I.

Soapbox warning!!!

Let's see how this develops for those of us who are in the "bid 2♣ as a GF whenever plausible" camp...

1♠ (normal) -P- 2♣ (GF, could be short if planning to support Opener's major) -P-
2♦ (normal, but maybe subgroup of extremeists and also could be short) -P- 2♠ (trumps set, GF)

I like this start already. Now, let's kick in to cuebidding as I like it...

Oh, wait a minute!!! Opener now has a great 4♥ Picture Splinter. Stiff in hearts (never void), at least two of the top three spades, at least three of the top four of his own suit (diamonds), and no control (Queen as highest possible honor)b in the fourth suit (clubs).

Responder now has a problem, however. This could easily be a deal where we lose a club, the heart Ace, and a trump.

However, the rule that I now use is that a one-under Picture Splinter must be sound. Your answer to RKCB must be at least "two with the Queen." With a lesser holding, simply cuebid.

Responder now can picture the specific hand shown as the absolute minimum. Opposite that minimum, however, he can play the hand out and can nearly claim before he bids.

I'll admit that this new strict rule as to one-under Picture Splinters is critical here. Without it, Responder has a W.A.G.

[foo]

extras, on Nov 20 2007, 03:46 PM, said:

AKQT7 T KQJ3 976
vs
9832 KQJ5 A65 A5

Our effort was
1S-2N;3H-4C;4S float.

N's hand looks more two suited than any other shape to me, so if I'm sitting N the likely auction is

1S-2N!;4D-??

Now S has a hand evaluation problem that should result in them being excited about Our slam chances.

...4N= 1430 will tell S We have 2 Keycards + the SQ, which should be enough for S to put Us in 6S.

...5S!= Please bid 6S if you have good trumps will also will work.

[kenrexford]

Bidding 4♠ after 4♣ instead of bidding 4♦ is out there. A cause for stoning.

However, bidding 4♦ does not solve all problems. There is still a lot of work to be done here.

[lilboyman]

Partner's 4 Club bid leads me to believe partner's working values are in Clubs and Diamonds. Since my singleton or void Heart did not stop partner from having slam interest, 4 NT seems easy next call for me holding a five-loser hand.

[extras]

Thank you everyone. Much appreciated.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4D instead of 4S is certainly an improvement.
It is not clear that you will reach the slam,
the single heart is not good news for South,
and he will not go beyond 4S on its own, but
he may show add. interest with 4H over 4S
(cue, last train, what ever you call it), because
he has fairly pure values, and this should induce
North to move on.

I am not certain, that I would find the slam,
and I would not worry to much, you have no
wastage, and most of the time the hands wont
fit so good.
And most of the time a 4NT bid by North over 4C
will lead to a minus score, North has a good hand,
but he needs some help from South, and 4C by
South is morely a forced cue bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[EricK]

This may be a slight derail, but is there any way in standard 2/1 to look for a possible 4-4 ♥ fit before committing to ♠. Obviously one can manufacture a 2/1 bid in a minor, but I don't think that is standard (yet!).

[mike777]

EricK, on Nov 26 2007, 01:42 AM, said:

This may be a slight derail, but is there any way in standard 2/1 to look for a possible 4-4 ♥ fit before committing to ♠. Obviously one can manufacture a 2/1 bid in a minor, but I don't think that is standard (yet!).

yes...you can bid 2nt.....and partner can show a second suit in hearts...
if not..no...you lose second suit all the time in 2/1........that is the price......for playing 2/1 on bidding panels...you lose second suit very often.


2/1 is for finding first major or NT or preempt fast.......it is not for delicate auctions.

[mikeh]

mike777, on Nov 26 2007, 02:24 AM, said:

EricK, on Nov 26 2007, 01:42 AM, said:

This may be a slight derail, but is there any way in standard 2/1 to look for a possible 4-4 ♥ fit before committing to ♠. Obviously one can manufacture a 2/1 bid in a minor, but I don't think that is standard (yet!).

yes...you can bid 2nt.....and partner can show a second suit in hearts...
if not..no...you lose second suit all the time in 2/1........that is the price......for playing 2/1 on bidding panels...you lose second suit very often.


2/1 is for finding first major or NT or preempt fast.......it is not for delicate auctions.

Not so. Bear in mind that the phrase '2/1 GF' connotes a general approach, not a specific system. I play or played 2/1 in 4 different expert partnerships, with (by BBO definition) WC partners. There were huge differences in method: the convention cards alone were such that none of the partners would have played anyone else's card without hours of discussion, and this left out the agreements not reflected on the CC.

A good 2/1 method can be a very powerful aproach and should have no trouble finding secondary fits. And I have been on a few bidding panels