[cnszsun]

Scoring: IMP

1♦-1♥
1♠-2♣* (gf)
3♣-3♦
3♠-3NT
?

---

Do you agree with my bids up to now, anyway, would you pass 3nt?

Sry, pls move this to 'sayc and 2/1 discussion'.

This post has been edited by cnszsun: 2007-November-22, 07:20

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

yes, the bidding is fine, and now I would pass.

You have told partner, that you hold
a 4054 hand, and that you hold a top
honor in spade.
And looking at your hand, I believe, the
above describes your hand pretty well.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

1) Agree with bidding so far
2) 4D now.

[Codo]

I really thought that this is an auto-pass.
I showed at least a 4153, with really nothing helpful in hearts. So even thinking about pulling is wrong. IF 3 NT is wrong, pd bid wrong. I showed my hand closely enough for him to make a good guess.

[helene_t]

I could have had less. I think bidding 4♦ is reasonable. P shows a slam invite but I don't know have serious that invite is. Good problem.

[Hanoi5]

I'd bid 4♦, I think partner could have signed-off at 3NT previously, 3♦ after the 4th suit suggests slam.

[joker_gib]

Pass, description done and partner concludes in 3NT

[inquiry]

On the plus side, partner has made a game-forcing raise of diamonds and you have a great hand for diamonds. On the down side, partner has not bid clubs to show clubs, and your club suit is not real good for 3NT. The question is what is the understanding about the 3♠ bid. All suits bid, is this a slam try? Could it be an attempt to get to 3NT with concerns about the third suit you bid?

If partner has S-Qx H-AKJxx D-Kxxx C-xx you might lose first five club tricks. But would partner not rebid 3NT instead of 3D over 3C with that hand? If one assumes that after 3♣ that 3♦ expressed at least some slam ambition, how can you now pass 3NT?

So all the 5332 and most of the 5422 hands disappear after 3♦. Partner rates to be short in one of the black suits. If it is clubs, surely a slam exist, if it is spades, slam and game depends upon the quality of partners clubs. I would bid 4♦, denying a club control (Ace or king), the rest is up to partner. If he cooperates, by not signing off in, we bid slam.

BTW, after 4♦, how do you play a 4NT bid by partner? Blackwood or natural signoff?

[jdonn]

Bidding here is telling partner he doesn't know what he is doing. We not only showed our shape, we even emphasized the good spades. 3NT is not a suggestion, partner knows we are short in hearts already. His bidding suggests a spade weakness for notrump. If he had a club weakness he would not bid 3NT here, and if we bid 3NT over 3♦ he should pull with spade weakness.

[helene_t]

inquiry, on Nov 22 2007, 06:46 PM, said:

BTW, after 4♦, how do you play a 4NT bid by partner? Blackwood or natural signoff?

A sign-off does not make much sense here, then he should have bid 3N over 3♣.

[mike777]

helene_t, on Nov 22 2007, 11:50 AM, said:

inquiry, on Nov 22 2007, 06:46 PM, said:

BTW, after 4♦, how do you play a 4NT bid by partner? Blackwood or natural signoff?

A sign-off does not make much sense here, then he should have bid 3N over 3♣.

I play 4nt here is a cue for hearts....
4h is kickback, rkc for D.

I agree this is a very hard hand and if you pass 3nt that is fine!
I think 3s is still a grope for 3nt or best game, not a clear slam try.
I choose to bid 4d over 3nt despite the heart void since I have more than partner will expect. Granted 2c here for me shows a really good hand not a random 12 or 13 count

[mikeh]

I think this is a little closer than jdonn suggests, but it is still a pass for me.

Partner's sequence suggested interest in a high-level minor suit contract if our hand was appropriate. The fact that he bid 3N after our 3♠ suggests that his interest in diamonds is no longer, if it ever were, strong. Typical hand: x AQxxx Kxxx KJx.

Had we held, for example, Axxx x AQJx Axxx, a hand consistent with our auction to date, we'd be bidding on quite happily.

It is useful, when evaluating our hand in auctions such as these, to appreciate the extent, if any, to which we have previously limited our values. Partner, when bidding 4SF and then when bidding 3♦, had to cater to a wide range of values: anything up to just below a jump shift or jump reverse over 1♥. Thus his sequence isn't a strong slam move: it might have been, when he bid 3♦, but 3N clarifies his level of interest, and we really don't have anything huge by way of extras... a void in the suit in which he has, probably, his greatest length and in which he definitely has values is a negative slam feature, not a positive one.

[mikeh]

helene_t, on Nov 22 2007, 11:50 AM, said:

inquiry, on Nov 22 2007, 06:46 PM, said:

BTW, after 4♦, how do you play a 4NT bid by partner? Blackwood or natural signoff?

A sign-off does not make much sense here, then he should have bid 3N over 3♣.

If my partner bid 3N and then 4N, it is natural. Referring back to my earlier post, partner's sequence to 3N suggests that he has short, weak spades, and a minimum, and my 3♠ bid gave him assurance both that the opps won't/can't run that suit and that I have (for slam purposes) wasted values.

Any other approach makes it very tough for partner to move constructively over my 3♣: where my hand was still relatively unlimited: he HAS to show the diamonds when he has them, but thereafter, he HAS to be allowed to slow the auction down: otherwise my pull of 3N isn't merely another, strong slam try, it is in essence a virtual slam force... it certainly commits us to at least 5♦ when we both have length and strength opposite shortness. That, in turn, means that opener has to pass 3N unless he is SURE than 5♦ is at least as safe as 3N and that slam is worth pursuing.

[dicklont]

Call me crazy but I don't understand the commenters above that pass 3NT.
Partner goes through all the trouble of fourt suit forcing
to support my beautiful diamonds
and then he wants to play 3NT all of a sudden?
I think he's is interested in 6♦.

My clubs are no good, and the value of my ♥ void is uncertain but still i bid 4♦ to keep the options open.
Unclear how this will proceed though.

[whereagles]

Think pard might have been trying to check whether or not there is spade wastage. Possible hand:

x
AKxx
Kxxx
Kxxx

If ♠AK were, say ♣AQ, there would be a slam. As it is, pard lost interest and signs-off.

[jdonn]

I agree you can pull 3NT with extras, so maybe I poorly stated in my last post. But we don't have much extra.

Edit: Looking back I now remember why I said pulling means you don't trust partner. I wasn't trying to say that you shouldn't bid on to look for slam (in general), I was saying you shouldn't pull out of fear 3NT is going down. That was in response to Inquiry's post that suggested 3NT could go down, he thought partner might have short clubs so I replied that's impossible. But going slamming is a perfectly valid reason to pull if you think you are good enough.

[skjaeran]

Partner has made a light slam try in diamonds. It looks like our 3♠ bid put him off for the moment. But we have extras here IMO. I guess a slam is at worst on a ♣ guess if partner doesn't sign off in 4NT over my 4♦ now. Denying a ♣ control should give partner a nice description of our hand.

[brianshark]

In my opinion, one of the two situations are true:

Partner was scrambling for stoppers for a 3NT contract. His 3NT bid suggests he found them. Therefore pass.

Partner had a slam try in diamonds. But your 3♠ bid was not what he wanted to hear so instead he decided to sign off in 3NT. My guess is that he has a shortage in spades and soft values in hearts or clubs (KJs and the like). If your spade values were instead in clubs or hearts then he would have pressed on to slam.

3NT should (almost) always be a suggestion to play. Mark me down for a pass.

[cnszsun]

My partner's hand is here if you are interested:
♠Jx
♥AKQxx
♦xxxx
♣AK

At table, i was thinking of pass or 4D, and finally passed to respect partner's choice. After reading justin's comments, i agree that 4D is a little better because i still have unexposed extras. Anyway, 5D would not be much worse than 3nt.