[Winstonm]

Don't elected U.S. officials make an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States?

Interview with Judge Napolitano: (emphasis added)

Quote

Napolitano: The Patriot Act permits federal agents to write their own search warrants with no judge having examined evidence and agreed that it’s likely that the person or thing the government wants to search will reveal evidence of a crime.

....the Patriot Act makes it a felony for the recipient of a self-written search warrant to reveal it to anyone.

So FBI agents can write their own search warrant with just the permission of their superior, no judge at all, nobody at the main Department of Justice, and serve it essentially on any entity they want, and if they serve this search warrant on your doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman, and that doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman tells you they received it, then that doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman, can be prosecuted for a felony, face five years in jail.

This creates a Soviet-style conundrum for the recipient, who can’t even tell his or her lawyer or general counsel about getting the search warrant. You can’t hire outside counsel to challenge it, you can’t mention it to your spouse on the pillow, to your priest in confession—not even to a federal judge in a federal courtroom where all language except perjury should be permitted. This is a conundrum the likes of which government has never visited even under the Alien and Sedition Act.
reason: The Patriot Act was sold as a necessary protection from terror. How has that worked out?

Napolitano: How many people has the DOJ convicted in a jury trial for terrorism based on evidence obtained from the Patriot Act? Zero.

A quick recap: The Patriot Act allows an FBI agent with only the approval of his superior - no judicial oversight - to issue a search warrant, and if the person who receives the warrant calls his attorney for help, he is guilty of a felony. This is a blatant violation of the rights greanted under the first and fourth amendments of the Constitution of the United States.

But it is U.S. law - passed with no debate by Congress. Signed into law the George W. Bush.

Houston, we have a problem....

[mike777]

Winstonm, on Nov 17 2007, 07:47 PM, said:

Don't elected U.S. officials make an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States?   

Interview with Judge Napolitano: (emphasis added)

Quote

Napolitano: The Patriot Act permits federal agents to write their own search warrants with no judge having examined evidence and agreed that it’s likely that the person or thing the government wants to search will reveal evidence of a crime.

....the Patriot Act makes it a felony for the recipient of a self-written search warrant to reveal it to anyone.

So FBI agents can write their own search warrant with just the permission of their superior, no judge at all, nobody at the main Department of Justice, and serve it essentially on any entity they want, and if they serve this search warrant on your doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman, and that doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman tells you they received it, then that doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman, can be prosecuted for a felony, face five years in jail.

This creates a Soviet-style conundrum for the recipient, who can’t even tell his or her lawyer or general counsel about getting the search warrant. You can’t hire outside counsel to challenge it, you can’t mention it to your spouse on the pillow, to your priest in confession—not even to a federal judge in a federal courtroom where all language except perjury should be permitted. This is a conundrum the likes of which government has never visited even under the Alien and Sedition Act.
reason: The Patriot Act was sold as a necessary protection from terror. How has that worked out?

Napolitano: How many people has the DOJ convicted in a jury trial for terrorism based on evidence obtained from the Patriot Act? Zero.

A quick recap: The Patriot Act allows an FBI agent with only the approval of his superior - no judicial oversight - to issue a search warrant, and if the person who receives the warrant calls his attorney for help, he is guilty of a felony. This is a blatant violation of the rights greanted under the first and fourth amendments of the Constitution of the United States.

But it is U.S. law - passed with no debate by Congress. Signed into law the George W. Bush.

Houston, we have a problem....

I always wondered about this oath stuff.


Can anyone find where taking an oath or swearing an oath ..any oath is a requirement for a federal elected office?

Lets take a simple example....the president dies.......I assume the VP is president even if he takes no oath or swears nothing?

In any event if someone is a war criminal or criminal I assume there is a formal procedure to remove them from office if not send them to jail. If the voters put people in power who do not follow the procedures for removal..whose fault is that?

BTW was not this act passed years ago? If so the voters have had ample chance to elect people to overturn it.
My only point is we get the government we deserve.....

BTW2...it looks like Congress on the 41st or 42 second try got close to cutting off funds for Iraq or something, not sure what this bill really said or meant.....but failed again.

[Winstonm]

Quote

BTW was not this act passed years ago? If so the voters have had ample chance to elect people to overturn it.
My only point is we get the government we deserve

Passed not long after September 11, 2001 attacks - with no debate. I doubt anyone even read it - the troubling part is that it is still with us.

Maybe you are right - there seem to be few who care anymore - I guess the American Revolution was a non-event. Welcome to Brazil-America.

[luke warm]

the law is a travesty, but mike is right about who to blame... i have seen the enemy and he is us

[bid_em_up]

Typical. Try reading what it actually says.

"and if they serve this search warrant on your doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman, and that doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman tells you they received it, then that doctor, lawyer, grocer, or mailman, can be prosecuted for a felony, face five years in jail."

So, if you are under investigation and during the course of that investigation, the FBI chooses to execute a warrant on your doctor, laywer, grocer, et. al. and THEY were tell you that such a search warrant was issued, then they can be prosecuted for telling you that.

It does not say you cannot tell your own lawyer than a search warrant was executed against your own personal self or that you yourself are under investigation.

Who makes this stuff up?

[Mbodell]

Winstonm, on Nov 17 2007, 07:47 PM, said:

....the Patriot Act makes it a felony for the recipient of a self-written search warrant to reveal it to anyone.

This is why when it was passed a bunch of librarians immediately put up signs saying "we've never been served a Patriot act search warrant" so that they could remove the signs if they ever were served and then people could deduce that as long as the sign wasn't removed there had been no warrant served. I believe the first time the Patriot act was reauthorized the librarians were no longer included in the people who could be served these special search warrants, so you can borrow "Catcher in the Rye" without worry.

[Winstonm]

bid_em_up, on Nov 18 2007, 02:22 AM, said:

Typical.  Try reading what it actually says.

It does not say you cannot tell your own lawyer than a search warrant was executed against your own personal self or that you yourself are under investigation.

Judge Napolitano says the gag order applies to the recipient, as well. (emphasis added.)

Quote

This creates a Soviet-style conundrum for the recipient, who can’t even tell his or her lawyer or general counsel about getting the search warrant. You can’t hire outside counsel to challenge it, you can’t mention it to your spouse on the pillow, to your priest in confession—not even to a federal judge in a federal courtroom where all language except perjury should be permitted. This is a conundrum the likes of which government has never visited even under the Alien and Sedition Act.