[guggie]

♣♣My partner and I play 2/1GF, with some extra gadgets to show strong one suited hands.
In a pairs event he opened `♥, I bid 1NT with Axxx=98=Kxxx=QJx. Than he bid 4clubs.
I was at a loss what this could be, and eventually took it for a cue in a strong hand with hearts. I decided for 4♦, p4♥, end of bidding, made +2.
He had:
x=AKxxxx=void=AKxxxx

We had quite an argument:
My point was that 3♣ would be forcing as well, and that 4♣ has the disadvantage of putting me for a riddle, which I hate and which makes me more muddled than usual.
His point was that 4♣ must show a hand like this, as a good one suited hand with hearts should have been opened with a 2-opening as agreed. I admit i overlooked that point, as I was in total confusion.

Eventually we made up and are on 1st position halfway the competition, but I still wonder what are the merits of 4clubs above 3 clubs for a hand like his, a strong 2 suiter.

[helene_t]

Yes, we had this discussion recently. It shows hearts with clubs shortness.

[kfay]

4♣ is a self-splinter imo.

[ArtK78]

Most of the posters thought it was a self-splinter. In actual fact, it is whatever you agree that it is. To me, it shows the hand that your partner had. If you are going to use up that much bidding space, you should be painting a picture. Self-splinters do that to some extent, but this is a much more graphic picture.

My problem with the self-splinter approach is that it makes it impossible to play in 3NT when 3NT could easily be the best possible final contract. With the 6-6 hand, one would never play in 3NT.

As for the utility of either approach, that is a matter of partnership agreement. Both are quite rare.

[the hog]

ArtK78, on Nov 8 2007, 01:20 AM, said:

Most of the posters thought it was a self-splinter. In actual fact, it is whatever you agree that it is. To me, it shows the hand that your partner had. If you are going to use up that much bidding space, you should be painting a picture. Self-splinters do that to some extent, but this is a much more graphic picture.

My problem with the self-splinter approach is that it makes it impossible to play in 3NT when 3NT could easily be the best possible final contract. With the 6-6 hand, one would never play in 3NT.

As for the utility of either approach, that is a matter of partnership agreement. Both are quite rare.

4C is an autosplinter in many expert partnerships. Why you would want to play in 3NT with an good 7 card Major and an outside void is a question the answer to which is beyond my ken.
As has been pointed out, a 3C bid is a gf and over 3C - 3M 4C would show the 6/6 hand. Your partner is to blame here for making a foolish bid.

[MFA]

3♣ is 5-4, but 3♣+4♣ should then show 6-6? I don't buy that.

I think 4♣ should be natural, but not this control-rich hand.
Perhaps A, KQ10xxx, -,QJxxxx or something. The actual hand could then bid 3♣+4♣.

[pclayton]

Look, enough of this "I think its "x"".

I know its an autosplinter and I know that a predominance of partnerships play it this way.

[jtfanclub]

It's an Autosplinter for most people,.

If the auction goes:

1♠ 1NT
3♣ 3♦
4♦

You know that opener has shortness in hearts, right? And you're still not up to the level of 4♥.

So maybe a splinter should show a 5431 splinter and a jump shift followed by a new suit show a 5521 splinter or something. Gotta be a way to eliminate the redundancy.

[pclayton]

jtfanclub, on Nov 7 2007, 03:33 PM, said:

It's an Autosplinter for most people,.

If the auction goes:

1♠ 1NT
3♣ 3♦
4♦

You know that opener has shortness in hearts, right? And you're still not up to the level of 4♥.

So maybe a splinter should show a 5431 splinter and a jump shift followed by a new suit show a 5521 splinter or something. Gotta be a way to eliminate the redundancy.

No. An autosplinter guarantees a 6 or 7 card suit )+.

If you have a 2nd suit, bid it or jump in it.

[vang]

auto-splinter is default. and anyway, a 7 card suit + shortage is more frequent than 6-6/6-5.

[jtfanclub]

pclayton, on Nov 7 2007, 06:44 PM, said:

No. An autosplinter guarantees a 6 or 7 card suit )+.

If you have a 2nd suit, bid it or jump in it.

Ah, neat. Thanks.

[ArcLight]

Why respond 1NT instead of 1♠?

[Yogeshdg]

Instead of debating what should be 4♣ agree on the bid and its meaning with your partner to avoid confusion(also agree on 4♦ while you are at it).
By the way it shld be natural bid showing 6♥ 5♣ and minimum hand.

[helene_t]

ArcLight, on Nov 8 2007, 02:36 AM, said:

Why respond 1NT instead of 1♠?

They play Flannery so 1♥ tends to deny spades.

[jdonn]

We have been through this many a time, most believe self-splinter is standard, a few believe it shows a 2 suiter, and no one is about to change their minds.

[helene_t]

If your 2-level openings include semiforcing one-suiters, maybe p has a point. Still I think p should have assumed standard treatments if this is undiscussed in your partnership. Even with semi-forcing one-suiter openings available, the auto-splinter may be useful for hands with too little defense for a 2-opening.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

since 3C is game forcing with clubs and
hearts, 4C is per default a splinter, ...
but as was stated you can play it as
whatever you want as long it is agreed on.

There is no merrit of 4C vs. 3C, 3C allows
partner to show his support with 3H / 4C
or 4H / 5C, showing / denying slam interest,
after 4C partner can only give prference.

With kind regards
Marlowe