[jdonn]

r/r imps, you hold x AKxx T98xx xxx.

RHO deals, pass pass LHO opens 1♣. Partner bids 1NT. You bid 2♣ stayman and partner bids 2♠, so you bid 2NT. Partner now bids 3♣.

P P 1♣ 1NT
P 2♣ P 2♠
P 2NT P 3♣
P ?

1) What does that mean?
2) What do you do?

[hrothgar]

I haven't seen this one before. I suspect that partner is showing a maximum, but he has some uncertainty about his club stopper.

He wants me to bid 3N with a half stop or better in Clubs. Otherwise, we scramble.

I have 5 Diamonds and a crappy club holding. Mark me down for 3♦

[Echognome]

Well I'm trying to parallel this to the uncontested auction:

1NT - 2♣
2♠ - 2NT
3♣

Which I would take as more of a semi-balanced hand with good clubs, offering a better place to play than 2NT. I don't see why this cannot be the case given a potentially short 1♣ opening in third. It's not always the case that they have a lead director. It's also possible that third hand has a weak NT.

[hrothgar]

Echognome, on Nov 7 2007, 01:10 AM, said:

Well I'm trying to parallel this to the uncontested auction:

1NT - 2♣
2♠ - 2NT
3♣

Which I would take as more of a semi-balanced hand with good clubs, offering a better place to play than 2NT.  I don't see why this cannot be the case given a potentially short 1♣ opening in third.  It's not always the case that they have a lead director.  It's also possible that third hand has a weak NT.

Here's my issue with this interpretation:

In order for this to hold true, the 1NT bidder needs a hand with four Spades and good enough Clubs that he is suggesting a 5♣ contract. All of this needs to be true, facing a partner who is a passed hand and a RHO who opened 1♣

I suspect that the frequency that we overcalled 1N with a dubious club stopper is significantly higher

[Echognome]

Perhaps. I'm obviously thinking here of specifically a 4=2=2=5 hand.

Of course it's pretty rare to see this sequence as well.

[Halo]

He's got spades and better clubs, I believe.

[Fluffy]

undiscussed bids should be natural, if he has diamond shortness we might belong to 5/6 clubs.

I'll bid 3♥ to show where I dwell, if he bids 3♠ I'll try 5♣.

[hrothgar]

Echognome, on Nov 7 2007, 01:20 AM, said:

Perhaps. I'm obviously thinking here of specifically a 4=2=2=5 hand.

Of course it's pretty rare to see this sequence as well.

Hell, I wouldn't rule out partner having a 4=3=1=5 hand, especially given my 1NT openings and overcalls.

Even so, I still suspect that its more useful to cater for xxx in clubs.

[pclayton]

Echognome, on Nov 6 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

Perhaps. I'm obviously thinking here of specifically a 4=2=2=5 hand.

Of course it's pretty rare to see this sequence as well.

Thats what I would expect too. I think pard is looking for a better place than 2N, but his clubs better be damn good.

[mike777]

I would just take it as natural and to play. Not an invite of somekind. Partner just hates to play in 2nt ever.....

AKxx...xx....xx....AKJ9x

[pclayton]

mike777, on Nov 6 2007, 03:01 PM, said:

I would just take it as natural and to play. Not an invite of somekind. Partner just hates to play in 2nt ever.....

AKxx...xx....xx....AKJ9x

Whats so troubling about this hand type is that 3N is frigid on the bidding.

[ArtK78]

pclayton, on Nov 6 2007, 06:22 PM, said:

mike777, on Nov 6 2007, 03:01 PM, said:

I would just take it as natural and to play. Not an invite of somekind. Partner just hates to play in 2nt ever.....

AKxx...xx....xx....AKJ9x

Whatsoever troubling about this hand type is that 3N is frigid on the bidding.

I agree with the interpretation of the 3♣ call as showing this type of hand - 4225 with good black suits.

It is possible that a suit that opener did not bid - in this case, a red suit - is wide open. It leaves open the possibility of playing game in a black suit, even a 4-3 spade fit.

[bhall]

As the various comments indicate, it's a mysterious bid. I have one partner for whom it is asking for club help and another for whom it is showing clubs, worried about diamonds. I tell the first that he should start those hands with 1♠, not 1N, and the second that ♦ are unlikely to be led, unless he exposes his weakness this way.

I think it should be a game acceptance, in any case, just not sure which game is best. Without diamonds stopped, a 4-3 game in either major is conceivable, so I would vote for something like AKxx QJx xx AQJx and bid 3N in this case.

[kenrexford]

I'm happy to see as many proposals for 3♣ as a natural call. It will calm down my usual tone for situations like this. Well, actually...

3♣ is about the most obvious call I've seen in a while. Partner has acceptance values but his club stopper sucks. He might not even have one.

I cannot even fathom applying the "it could be natural" theory here. If a cuebid could be anything but natural, it usually is not natural. This is a cuebid. If Partner held some concentrated-values 4225 hand, he'd overcall 1♠ like a grown-up, not some silly 1NT...2♠...3♣ sequence.

Why not something like ♠AKJx ♥Qx ♦AKxx ♣xxx?

I would bid 3♦ and hope to play there.

[Echognome]

kenrexford, on Nov 6 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

If Partner held some concentrated-values 4225 hand, he'd overcall 1♠ like a grown-up, not some silly 1NT...2♠...3♣ sequence.

Sure... if he had good spades!

Bidding problem - You hold Qxxx xx AQ AKJxx. RHO opens 1♣ in 3rd seat. Your call?

Similarly, this is more of the hand type I expect might want to pull from 2NT.

[neilkaz]

I would play it as asking for help stopping ♣ and noting that my stopper over a 1m opening (esp ♣) maybe be dubious for a 1NT overcall if my shape and HCP are right, since the opps often don't have at least a 5 card suit like they do when they open a major.

Perhaps the 1NT overcaller has... AKxx,Kx,AQxx,Jxx or AJxx,AQx,KJxx,Qx

I think most of us would overcall 1NT with either hand.

[kenrexford]

Echognome, on Nov 6 2007, 09:08 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Nov 6 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

If Partner held some concentrated-values 4225 hand, he'd overcall 1♠ like a grown-up, not some silly 1NT...2♠...3♣ sequence.

Sure... if he had good spades!

Bidding problem - You hold Qxxx xx AQ AKJxx. RHO opens 1♣ in 3rd seat. Your call?

Similarly, this is more of the hand type I expect might want to pull from 2NT.

Why would I want to pull this from 2NT? I would like this hand.

[jdonn]

At first I thought it was a suit but now I'm agreeing with the shady-stopper interpretation.

For all the curiosos out there partner held KQJx JTx AJx AQx. Don't ask me why he bid 3♣ but essentially he was going for the bad-stopper interpretation in the sense that he meant it as "forcing, wants to explore other contracts." Why, I don't know.