[maxentius]

I used to play a lot of discarding signals...I didn't discover yet a good enough one ...now I'm playing with any small as encouraging...I played also italian discards (odd/even) it is a good way when you have cards enough only...pls try everybody to say which discarding system uses to play and why consider that it is better then the others...thank in advance

[ArtK78]

I use upside down count and attitude signals except at my first discard. At my first discard, I use odd/even discard (odd encourages, even discourages and tends to give suit preference).

I believe it can be demonstrated that upside down count and attitude is superior to "standard" carding methods. And odd/even at one's first discard is equal to or better than any other method (IMO).

In addition, I would like to use a signalling method at the first trick but my interpretation of ACBL rules is that it is not allowed. It is something that I picked up from a Bridge World article some years ago. When you are known to hold a long suit (bid and rebid a suit, preempted the suit) and your partner leads the suit at trick one, and you are not winning the trick, you play an odd card with an odd number of cards in the suit, an even card with an even number of cards in the suit, a low card to encourage and a high card to discourage. For reasons that should be painfully clear, this is not possible unless you hold a long suit.

However, my reading of ACBL regulations is that multi-meaning carding is not permitted EXCEPT at one's first discard. So following suit and giving count and attitude simultaneously is not permitted.

[MFA]

Suit preference discards ("lavinthal").

It's a huge upside that you can give a statement about a key side suit without having to throw from it.

[brianshark]

Odd encourages, even suit preference I play with most people. It's both easy and effective.

[MFA]

ArtK78, on Nov 6 2007, 10:22 AM, said:

In addition, I would like to use a signalling method at the first trick but my interpretation of ACBL rules is that it is not allowed.  It is something that I picked up from a Bridge World article some years ago.  When you are known to hold a long suit (bid and rebid a suit, preempted the suit) and your partner leads the suit at trick one, and you are not winning the trick, you play an odd card with an odd number of cards in the suit, an even card with an even number of cards in the suit, a low card to encourage and a high card to discourage.  For reasons that should be painfully clear, this is not possible unless you hold a long suit.

However, my reading of ACBL regulations is that multi-meaning carding is not permitted EXCEPT at one's first discard.  So following suit and giving count and attitude simultaneously is not permitted.

I doubt very much that this interpretation is correct, although I don't know anything about specifically the ACBL rules.

Normally, only encrypted signals are restricted.
For instance, suppose you have a big fit on defense and play standard signals from the hand with the ten of this suit and upside-down from hands without this specific ten.
Then only the defense can know what is going on. This is generally prohibited.

With your system everything is open to the opponents.

I suggest you ask some authority to clear this up.

[jtfanclub]

Quote

However, my reading of ACBL regulations is that multi-meaning carding is not permitted EXCEPT at one's first discard.  So following suit and giving count and attitude simultaneously is not permitted.

Quote

I doubt very much that this interpretation is correct, although I don't know anything about specifically the ACBL rules.

I do, and it's exactly correct for GCC.

http://web2.acbl.org...nvchart2005.pdf

"Dual message carding strategies are not approved except on each defender's first discard".

[MFA]

jtfanclub, on Nov 6 2007, 11:16 AM, said:

Quote

However, my reading of ACBL regulations is that multi-meaning carding is not permitted EXCEPT at one's first discard.  So following suit and giving count and attitude simultaneously is not permitted.

Quote

I doubt very much that this interpretation is correct, although I don't know anything about specifically the ACBL rules.

I do, and it's exactly correct for GCC.

http://web2.acbl.org...nvchart2005.pdf

"Dual message carding strategies are not approved except on each defender's first discard".

Wow ... OMG ... well, you're obviously right!
Can anybody tell me the logic behind this lunacy?

[Echognome]

MFA, on Nov 6 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

Wow ... OMG ... well, you're obviously right!
Can anybody tell me the logic behind this lunacy?

It's pretty obvious why this is. It's specifically because it used to lead to too many tempo issues.

The only exception I can think of that I believe should be reconsidered is when you have shown 5+ in a suit and partner leads a top honor. Here it makes sense to play something like:

Very high card - Strong preference for the highest non-trump suit
High card - Mild preference for highest non-trump suit
Middle card - Please continue the suit or no suit preference
Low card - Mild preference for lowest non-trump suit
Very low card - Strong preference for lowest non-trump suit

Of course, it's a matter of interpretation whether a suit preference over three suits is multi-meaning (attitude in lead suit OR suit preference in remaing suits) or single-meaning (suit preference in all suits).

[jdonn]

Echo that's obviously not multi-meaning, at least not as the regulation means it. It would be if it was attitude AND suit preference at the same time, not OR.

[jtfanclub]

I think by multimeaning they mean something like:

"Very high card- Strong preference for the highest non-trump suit AND an odd number of cards in the suit led".

As far as I can tell, even

"Very high card- Strong preference for the highest non-trump suit OR an odd number of cards in the suit led".

is legal.

Even having a very high card show strong preference and a semihigh card show an odd number is legal (I believe), as long as one card doesn't show both meanings at the same time.

[ArtK78]

jtfanclub, on Nov 6 2007, 11:16 AM, said:

Quote

However, my reading of ACBL regulations is that multi-meaning carding is not permitted EXCEPT at one's first discard.  So following suit and giving count and attitude simultaneously is not permitted.

Quote

I doubt very much that this interpretation is correct, although I don't know anything about specifically the ACBL rules.

I do, and it's exactly correct for GCC.

http://web2.acbl.org...nvchart2005.pdf

"Dual message carding strategies are not approved except on each defender's first discard".

Note that the same restriction on multi-meaning carding except at one's first discard applies on ALL convention charts - even the Super Chart.

[MFA]

Ah, yes, the tempo paranoia. I strongly disagree with these regulations. Any decent player can learn to signal in tempo (and accept making some mistakes in the process). This you'll have to get used to with ANY signal.