Help
Pass or bid?
sit for u2nt?
#1
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,688
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2007-October-22, 10:46
Pass or bid?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
(still learning)
(still learning)
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,190
- Joined: 2003-September-30
- Location:London, England
- Interests:Cricket
Posted 2007-October-22, 10:50
Not with that hand. It's almost never right to pass an unusual 2NT. Your partner's hand is normally useless in a notrump contract. Pick one of your (his) minors and look happy 
Roland
Roland
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice
#3
- - - T98765432 AQT8
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 15,085
- Joined: 2005-June-23
- Gender:Male
- Location:Las Vegas, NV
Posted 2007-October-22, 10:58
There are hands where pass is possible (although not really if partner is an unpassed hand, since he is unlimited) but anyway this isn't one of them. Bid for sure.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,568
- Joined: 2006-June-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Barrington IL USA
- Interests:Backgammon, Bridge, Hockey
Posted 2007-October-22, 11:20
jdonn, on Oct 22 2007, 11:58 AM, said:
There are hands where pass is possible (although not really if partner is an unpassed hand, since he is unlimited) but anyway this isn't one of them. Bid for sure.
Agreed 100%.
#5
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,688
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2007-October-22, 11:37
Walddk, on Oct 22 2007, 09:50 AM, said:
Not with that hand. It's almost never right to pass an unusual 2NT. Your partner's hand is normally useless in a notrump contract. Pick one of your (his) minors and look happy
Roland
Roland
I did and I was
It just made me wonder what type of hand you need before pass is a better option.Scoring: IMP
West North East South
Pass Pass 1♠ 2NT
Pass 3♣ Pass Pass
Pass
PS Here's a hand where if partner had corrected to 3♦, I bid ♥'s? 4 of them
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
(still learning)
(still learning)
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,151
- Joined: 2003-June-11
- Location:Southern California
Posted 2007-October-22, 11:50
jillybean2, on Oct 22 2007, 09:37 AM, said:
Walddk, on Oct 22 2007, 09:50 AM, said:
Not with that hand. It's almost never right to pass an unusual 2NT. Your partner's hand is normally useless in a notrump contract. Pick one of your (his) minors and look happy
Roland
Roland
I did and I was
It just made me wonder what type of hand you need before pass is a better option.Scoring: IMP
West North East South
Pass Pass 1♠ 2NT
Pass 3♣ Pass Pass
Pass
PS Here's a hand where if partner had corrected to 3♦, I bid ♥'s? 4 of them
I would kindly inform your pard that its not a good idea to make an Unusual 2N call with only 9 cards in the minors. I wouldn't be too concerned with avoiding a 4-2 fit by passing 2N.
Much better to guess which is the better strain. With 1-1 in the minors, its a tougher decision.
"Phil" on BBO
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,568
- Joined: 2006-June-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Barrington IL USA
- Interests:Backgammon, Bridge, Hockey
Posted 2007-October-22, 12:08
I agree with Phil that the U2NT is not my call with 45 in the minors and 2-2 in the majors. I'll just overcall 2♣ and aviod all the confusion and risk that can result from U2NT.
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,190
- Joined: 2003-September-30
- Location:London, England
- Interests:Cricket
Posted 2007-October-22, 12:29
Perhaps it would be a good idea if you tell your partner, politely of course, that 2♣ is his call, not 2NT which shows at least 5-5 in the minors.
Roland
Roland
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,083
- Joined: 2005-March-18
- Gender:Male
Posted 2007-October-22, 12:45
why not?
We are green and not doubled yet,
so pass is ok, you will most likely go
down, but currently we just talk about
400, worst case scenario and most likely
it will be less than 200, and it is not clear
if we can make 3m.
With kind regards
Marlowe
We are green and not doubled yet,
so pass is ok, you will most likely go
down, but currently we just talk about
400, worst case scenario and most likely
it will be less than 200, and it is not clear
if we can make 3m.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#10
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,151
- Joined: 2003-June-11
- Location:Southern California
Posted 2007-October-22, 12:54
P_Marlowe, on Oct 22 2007, 10:45 AM, said:
why not?
We are green and not doubled yet,
so pass is ok, you will most likely go
down, but currently we just talk about
400, worst case scenario and most likely
it will be less than 200, and it is not clear
if we can make 3m.
With kind regards
Marlowe
We are green and not doubled yet,
so pass is ok, you will most likely go
down, but currently we just talk about
400, worst case scenario and most likely
it will be less than 200, and it is not clear
if we can make 3m.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Passing is a sure way to start the opponents doubling.
A direct 3♣ (slightly more flexible than 3♦) is likely to avoid a double, unless one of the hands has a big stack or substantially extra values.
"Phil" on BBO
#11
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 8,310
- Joined: 2005-February-09
- Gender:Male
- Location:Zurich, Switzerland
Posted 2007-October-22, 12:58
I think 3♣ is a better call than 3♦. Most of the time partner will (should?) have 5-5 in the minors and it won't matter.
But what if partner has 6-5? Then we'd like to be in the six-card suit. With 5♦+6♣, if you bid clubs first it can be very difficult to introduce diamonds later. This makes it appealing to bid 2NT right off. With 6♦+5♣, it's easy to overcall diamonds and then bid clubs next. So the 2NT bid, if 6-5, is much more likely to have six clubs.
But what if partner has 6-5? Then we'd like to be in the six-card suit. With 5♦+6♣, if you bid clubs first it can be very difficult to introduce diamonds later. This makes it appealing to bid 2NT right off. With 6♦+5♣, it's easy to overcall diamonds and then bid clubs next. So the 2NT bid, if 6-5, is much more likely to have six clubs.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#12
- The Abbess
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,096
- Joined: 2004-April-22
- Gender:Female
- Location:UK
Posted 2007-October-22, 12:59
2N is unlimited and therefore forcing. Occasionally I've gambled to pass a multi 2♦ even if it includes a strong variant, but, technical (de)merits aside, you need confidence in partner's sense of humor to do that.
Assuming that you do have confidence in p's sense of humour, I agree with Phil and others. I like Adam's argument btw.
Assuming that you do have confidence in p's sense of humour, I agree with Phil and others. I like Adam's argument btw.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#13 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-October-22, 16:44
helene_t, on Oct 22 2007, 01:59 PM, said:
2N is unlimited and therefore forcing.
Agree totally. Nothing else is really relevant once this is established (such as there being no reason to want to pass with this particular hand).
#14
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,688
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2007-October-22, 18:02
Ok. One more question, IF the auction had gone:
I can now happily bid ♥'s?
Scoring: IMP
(P) P (1♠) 2N
(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦
(P) P (1♠) 2N
(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦
I can now happily bid ♥'s?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
(still learning)
(still learning)
#15
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,151
- Joined: 2003-June-11
- Location:Southern California
Posted 2007-October-22, 18:07
jillybean2, on Oct 22 2007, 04:02 PM, said:
Ok. One more question, IF the auction had gone:
I can now happily bid ♥'s?
Scoring: IMP
(P) P (1♠) 2N
(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦
(P) P (1♠) 2N
(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦
I can now happily bid ♥'s?
Nope - you happily rebid 3♠....
Pard should be showing a good 6-5 with 3♦. 3N may be the target if pard has a good heart stop along with those nice minor suit cards.
"Phil" on BBO
#16
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,688
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2007-October-22, 18:13
Ouch Im thinking the correction to 3♦ shows ♦'s and ♥'s.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
(still learning)
(still learning)
#17
- The Abbess
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,096
- Joined: 2004-April-22
- Gender:Female
- Location:UK
Posted 2007-October-22, 18:17
No, ♥+♦ would be Michael's.
You can agree to play something else but beware that 2N as "any 2-suiter" may be a BSC (depending on how much strength it shows).
You can agree to play something else but beware that 2N as "any 2-suiter" may be a BSC (depending on how much strength it shows).
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#18 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-October-22, 18:19
jillybean2, on Oct 22 2007, 07:02 PM, said:
Ok. One more question, IF the auction had gone:
I can now happily bid ♥'s?
Scoring: IMP
(P) P (1♠) 2N
(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦
(P) P (1♠) 2N
(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦
I can now happily bid ♥'s?
Jilly, you are confusing 2 concepts.
You are right that in auctions where NT bids show ANY 2 suits that partner's correction shows the other 2 suits (ie 1S-p-2S-2N-p-3C-p-3D or 4S-4N-p-5C-p-5D). However here, 2N shows the minors always. The reason is that if partner had hearts and a minor he would bid 2S, michaels.
I disagree with Phil though, I would pass 3D in the auction described. Minor suit honors/length is really what's important, xx xx is very bad.
edit: helene is faster than me
#19
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,688
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2007-October-22, 18:52
Yep I was confused.
So.. 'any other 2' is only ever after opps bid a minor, over a major 'other 2' is more specific, either both minors (u2nt) or other major and minor (michaels).
So.. 'any other 2' is only ever after opps bid a minor, over a major 'other 2' is more specific, either both minors (u2nt) or other major and minor (michaels).
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
(still learning)
(still learning)
#20
- 5555
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,516
- Joined: 2003-September-04
- Gender:Male
Posted 2007-October-22, 19:03
jillybean2, on Oct 22 2007, 06:52 PM, said:
Yep I was confused.
So.. 'any other 2' is only ever after opps bid a minor, over a major 'other 2' is more specific, either both minors (u2nt) or other major and minor (michaels).
So.. 'any other 2' is only ever after opps bid a minor, over a major 'other 2' is more specific, either both minors (u2nt) or other major and minor (michaels).
No, a jump to 2N is always the lowest two unbid suits. "Any 2" only occurs in auctions like (1S) P (2S) 2N, or (4S) 4N.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
(P) P (1♠) 2N
(P) ?