[jocdelevat]

I was going to ask if cuebiding is a tool that any b/i player must have it then I give up when I saw on a website at chapter for beginners. I always thought that cuebiding for slam try is not a easy tool for b/i players and even for some advanced players so I understand the overuse of blackwood and gerber.
Anyhow here is good link for slam try and the rules when to ask for aces( for those b/i players who have partnership and want to learn). I have no chances to use it with pick up b/i partners.



http://www.prairiene...ridge/slams.htm

[Winstonm]

100% of the blame lies with Easley Blackwood and his damned ace-asking creation; 500% of the blame lies with those who convoluted his simple idea into a Romanized version which gave even more excuse to the masses to misuse a good convention; and 1000% of the blame goes to all who use 4N as an expression of exuberance instead of a real slam tool.

2H was obviously positive.

Then why not something like:

2C-2H
3H-3S
4C-4H
4S-5H
6H

[cphastrup]

jillybean2, on Oct 21 2007, 11:36 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: EW Scoring: IMP

♠   ♥ AJ542 ♦ J876 ♣ QJ83 ♠ AK96 ♥ KQ93 ♦ K ♣ AK62

West  North East  South

-    -    -    2♣
Pass  2♥    Pass  4NT
Pass  5♣    Pass  6♥
Pass  7♥    Pass  Pass
Pass 

Just a side note, having decided who's at fault for reaching seven...
...how about starting things lower?

I think opening 2♣ with the south hand takes up too much space, helps too little etc.
I generally wouldn't want to be in game unless partner could show some sign of life over a 1♣ opening bid.

1♣ - 1♥
3♦* - 4♠**

*splinter
**voidwood

Or is that too aggressive an approach with the north hand?

[Mbodell]

jocdelevat, on Oct 22 2007, 08:08 PM, said:

I was going to ask if cuebiding is a tool that any b/i player must have it then I give up when I saw on a website at chapter for beginners. I always thought that cuebiding for slam try is not a easy tool for b/i players and even for some advanced players so I understand the overuse of blackwood and gerber.
Anyhow here is good link for slam try and the rules when to ask for aces( for those b/i players who have partnership and want to learn). I have no chances to use it with pick up b/i partners.



http://www.prairiene...ridge/slams.htm

I think cue bids are braindead easy to use for B/I players as long as you stick to the simple, old school methods and aren't talking about some of the mixed first+second round control cue bids or showing versus asking cue bids or encrypted cue bids all of which may have superior technical merit but certainly add complexity, memory, and judgment.

The hand in question is perfect for cue bids with cues meaning first round controls first and second round controls when first round isn't possible. The auction would be:

2♣-2♥
3♥-3♠*
4♣**-4♥***
[4NT-5♣****]
6♥

* - This means I have first round control of spades. Opener with the A♠ knows this means a spade void.
** - This means I'm still interested in slam, and BTW, I have the first round control of clubs, please bid your cheapest next control.
*** - This means I don't have the first round control of diamonds (the skipped over suit) and don't have anything else to say. Depending on your agreements about 2♥ opener may be able to just bid 6♥ right now (I usually play it promises 1 of the top 2 honors, and certainly 1 of the top 3 seems right). Depending on your agreements if you were still slam interested you could bid 4♠ to show second round control and continued slam interest rather than 4♥.
**** - If you can't assume that about the 2♥ response than keycard can still get the answers. I'm assuming 1430 KC since that is what I play. If you've cue bid your void and opener is continuing even with no helpful sounds from you I'm not sure if you should use void showing responses. If you did you'd bid 6♥ and opener would pass (and hopefully with 0 KC and a spade void you would have not answered positively 2♥ and/or would not commit to the 5NT void showing answer)

[vuroth]

Imo the trick to cue bidding for B/I, which may actually be a test for many of us, is understanding which auctions are forcing to what level.

For example, I've heard that 2♣ - 2♦ is forcing to 3M, however by the way most people play it, it should be clear that 2♣ - 2M is a game forcing auction. If it isn't clear, then you'll wind up with an agonizing pass over 3♥.

Cuebidding only becomes easy(er) once the partnership has a rock solid understanding on forcing auctions.

All imo, of course.

V

[jillybean]

The lunatic 7♥ here was mine and I can’t come up with any reasonable justification for it now.
When I talked to my partner and showed them the thread, the response was they think its better to bid 4nt than show the opps where the key cards are. This ‘don’t give the opps any information’ approach isn’t uncommon but it leaves me in the dark along with the opps.

[helene_t]

jillybean2, on Oct 23 2007, 04:16 PM, said:

When I talked to my partner and showed them the thread, the response was they think its better to bid 4nt than show the opps where the key cards are.

OK but over-use of RKC is not the best way of keeping opps in the dark. If p is going to declare, the answer to RKC can be doubled for the lead. If you are going to declare, opps get to know how many keycards you have.

Better invite for slam with a general invite of 5♥. Or play sting cues.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on Oct 23 2007, 09:16 AM, said:

<snip>
This ‘don’t give the opps any information’ approach isn’t uncommon but it leaves me in the dark along with the opps.

Ok, one can understand this.

But I suggest, that you read S.J. Simon "Why you loose at Bridge",
the central theme is, that in a given circumstance you cant
achieve the theoretical best possible result due to lack of
knowledge / agreemnts / ... and you have to accept this,
because if you dont, you will loose a whole lot more.

In other words, at the table you should accept, that the
grand cant be bid.
But of course you can / and maybe you should sit down
later with your partner and discuss your methods, which
may help you to bid the grand the next time.
you


With kind regards
Marlowe

[Winstonm]

Quote

When I talked to my partner and showed them the thread, the response was they think its better to bid 4nt than show the opps where the key cards are

The thrust of this illogical sentiment is that your partner must be planning on bidding a lot of slams that depend on getting a lucky lead to make.

[jillybean]

Sting cues will look great on my profile


How the heck do you play it?

[vuroth]

jillybean2, on Oct 23 2007, 10:01 AM, said:

Sting cues will look great on my profile


How the heck do you play it?

My play sometimes involves sting keys. (Must be said aloud for maximum effect.)



V

[jillybean]

Oh, I already have that one

[neilkaz]

jillybean2, on Oct 23 2007, 09:16 AM, said:

The lunatic 7♥ here was mine and I can’t come up with any reasonable justification for it now.
When I talked to my partner and showed them the thread, the response was they think its better to bid 4nt than show the opps where the key cards are. This ‘don’t give the opps any information’ approach isn’t uncommon but it leaves me in the dark along with the opps.

This will be a 2 part reply.

Part 1) While I don't agree with PD's blast to 4NT with his cards, after he does this and then bids 6♥, it is a 100% sign off since he is telling you that after you showed 1 key card (most certainly the ace after your pos. response) that 6♥ is enough. His failure to inquire further with 5NT looking for a grand, indicates that he has no interest in one, based upon hearing about you 1 key card.

Your sig here states, to trust your PD and bid your cards. You initially bid your cards this hand, but later you failed to trust PD !

When you stretch to a vul grand, you gain 750 points if you make it, but turn +1430 into -100 if you go off one trick ! A check of the IMP table shows that those aren't good odds. When you carry on to a grand, you want to be rather certain of making it... ie a really clear favorite. Here it is just an odds against guess that your undisclosed void will allow PD to take 13 tricks, and a serious break of partnership discipline after he has signed off.

On this auction and looking at your hand and PD's bidding, I think it likely that 6♥ is getting a positive IMP score anyhow. You'll be surprised how many 2♣ auctions are screwed up, and how many slams can be missed anyhow. Not everyone would open 2♣ nor give a positive response. Some players play other responses and may mess things up as well and miss slam.

I'm certain that you're far too good to bid 7♥ again on a sequence like this.

Part 2) PD's blast to 4NT should be done only if the responses to your 1430 RKCB will allow him to accurately and confidently place the contract. After your positive response to his 2♣ he can be reasonably confident that 6♥ has decent play, but what if you have dead minimum ? We can construct hands where 6♥ has no play, and PD may find out about that if he starts slowly.

More importantly, what if you had responded 5♥ showing two key cards (both red aces here) ? Was PD prepared to gamble into 7NT ? Would PD bid 5NT to ask for kings ? PD has all the kings so all 5NT does is to guarantee all the key cards and you can,with undisclosed tricks carry on to the grand, but with him holding all the kings how can he really know that.

Clearly it is better for PD to slow down the bidding here and see how much you can Q and cooperate. If you lack the ace of ♦ there's only one loser in the suit anyhow, and it is unlikely that PD can get rid of it. If you have the ace of ♦, I don't see where PD has enough info to make 7♥ a really good bet.

.. neilkaz ..

[brianshark]

5% of the blame for opening 2♣. Only a small judgement issue really and tbh it's not certain opening 2♣ isn't better.
40% of the blame for the hasty 4NT.
5% of the blame for the failure to bid 6♥ which normally would show odd keycards with a void in a higher ranking suit, low because they might not play that method and maybe you don't want to risk confusion.
50% of the blame for the anti-percentage punt to 7♥.

[jillybean]

brianshark, on Oct 23 2007, 09:18 AM, said:

5% of the blame for the failure to bid 6♥ which normally would show odd keycards with a void in a higher ranking suit, low because they might not play that method and maybe you don't want to risk confusion.

6♥ showing odd keys and a void is normal?

[skjaeran]

jillybean2, on Oct 23 2007, 06:30 PM, said:

brianshark, on Oct 23 2007, 09:18 AM, said:

5% of the blame for the failure to bid 6♥ which normally would show odd keycards with a void in a higher ranking suit, low because they might not play that method and maybe you don't want to risk confusion.

6♥ showing odd keys and a void is normal?

Depend upon where you live. Here the 6-level show 2KC and a void, 5NT an odd number and a void.