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3H agreed hearts (as stated 3D would be hands with nowhere to go). 4D should be last train style (maybe reverse last train is better but few seem to play that). 5C is forcing with a club card, with only one spade control. Those are my guesses as to what the auction means, which are usually completely different to my partner's guesses.
What does this mean?
#21
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Posted 2007-October-23, 02:32
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
#22
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Posted 2007-October-23, 06:59
lamford, on Oct 23 2007, 03:32 AM, said:
3H agreed hearts (as stated 3D would be hands with nowhere to go). 4D should be last train style (maybe reverse last train is better but few seem to play that). 5C is forcing with a club card, with only one spade control. Those are my guesses as to what the auction means, which are usually completely different to my partner's guesses.
Interesting term -- "reverse last train."
I wonder if it is similar to one of my thoughts. If 4♦ in an auction is a re-transfer to hearts, and if partner just bid 4♣ as a super-acceptance, then it seems to me that bidding 4♥, instead of the re-transfer, should be "Last Train," and that the re-transfer is either a sign-off or a first step before asking.
Same idea?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
#23
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Posted 2007-October-23, 10:20
I agree with Frances, 3♥ is real support and 3♦ would be the "waiting bid" with a non-descript hand.
Really 1♥-1♠ is among the worst auctions in standard bidding, because responder has such a wide range of possible strengths and shapes. It's surprising that this sequence doesn't seem to give rise to all that many popular conventions (okay, there's kaplan inversion, but for the most part this just shifts the problem to 1♥-1nt, and the "forcing notrump" is not exactly a great start to an auction either).
Really 1♥-1♠ is among the worst auctions in standard bidding, because responder has such a wide range of possible strengths and shapes. It's surprising that this sequence doesn't seem to give rise to all that many popular conventions (okay, there's kaplan inversion, but for the most part this just shifts the problem to 1♥-1nt, and the "forcing notrump" is not exactly a great start to an auction either).
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#24
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Posted 2007-October-23, 10:56
Ok point proven, the 5♣ bid is not clear. In fact, the majority of people who think hearts are agreed believe the 3♥ bid did so, whereas the original assertion that hearts were agreed presupposed the 3♥ bid only promised a doubleton.
BTW I'm quite sure it's not standard that 3♥ promises real support and 3♦ covers such a wide variety of hands, though of course you can play it and argue it's best. But now I'm sure I'm opening a whole new can of worms.
BTW I'm quite sure it's not standard that 3♥ promises real support and 3♦ covers such a wide variety of hands, though of course you can play it and argue it's best. But now I'm sure I'm opening a whole new can of worms.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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Posted 2007-October-23, 11:22
jdonn, on Oct 23 2007, 05:56 PM, said:
BTW I'm quite sure it's not standard that 3♥ promises real support and 3♦ covers such a wide variety of hands, though of course you can play it and argue it's best. But now I'm sure I'm opening a whole new can of worms.
Looking at what I know of the origin of the replies, it seems to be fairly standard in the UK and not so in the US, with other countries less clear (less clear to me, at least).
But the question those of playing this way would ask those of you who think 3H doesn't agree hearts is... what does 3D mean?
If you say "natural, diamonds" then I can understand that although I think it is not best.
If you say "fourth suit forcing" then I don't understand why 3H doesn't agree hearts.
#26
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Posted 2007-October-23, 15:20
Now I'm starting to understand why half of the field in the World Championships declared 6♣ down a bazillion.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.