[jmc]

Scoring: IMP

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The auction is as follows by east west with NS silent throughout.

1C 16+ artificial
1D 0-7 artificial or impossible negative showing any 4441 8+
1H either hearts and a second suit or 20+ balanced, asks partner to bid 1s as relay
1S forced as a relay unless a very weak distriutional hand
4h described as a good hand with lots of hearts that may have gone through the relay in case the 1d bidder had the impossible negative or one of the weak distributional hands.

Do you double 4H? I'll admit that at the table I didn't give it serious thought.

This is the third round in a 7 round swiss team. You are doing well and playing against a quality team.

jmc

[ArtK78]

No.

[gwnn]

why would i ever double?

[cjames]

Nope, declarer will probably know where the missing ♥'s are then. Besides the hand is not that good.

[han]

I wouldn't either. Declarer thinks she has play opposite a 0-count and dummy may be quite a bit better than that.

[keylime]

No, for a few reasons.

1. You do not want declarer to be double-dummying the trump suit, if dummy just happens to have the A/K of trumps.

2. You own a fiendish spade holding that might gain 2 tricks.

3. I'm leading a passive club (pard didn't double the artificial 1D response). Since you are likely ahead in the match or break even, this isn't the position to swing. You also want to make a lead that would make it sound as if things are rosy for declarer.

[ArtK78]

The last time someone doubled me on a hand like this I endplayed them in trump to make.

That would have never happened without the double.

[jdonn]

I really don't mind either double or not. But I'm sure I would double, only since dummy is going to be so weak.

[ArtK78]

All that you know about the dummy is that it is 0-7 HCP and he does not have a very weak distributional hand.

All that you know about declarer's hand is that he is willing to bid 4♥ opposite a bust.

You do not know that dummy has no entries. For that matter, as far as you know, declarer has 10 cold tricks without an endplay.

What do you think of this layout:

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Without the double, declarer may go down, playing for 2-2 hearts or a singleton queen. With the double he may make an overtrick by taking finesses in hearts and one minor twice (this assumes that you don't give away the contract on the opening lead by leading something other than a spade).

[han]

That seems a rather contrived layout, don't you think?

[andy_h]

X seems reasonable.

[ArtK78]

Hannie, on Oct 30 2007, 09:52 AM, said:

That seems a rather contrived layout, don't you think?

Is it not consistent with the auction?

Sure, it is contrived. But I just wanted to demonstrate that a perfectly normal lie of the cards consistent with the auction could easily produce 10 tricks after a double when declarer could go down without the double. There are a lot of other "contrived" layouts that are consistent with the auction that are cold for 10 tricks. Some might be cold even without the help of a double.

How about this lie of the trump suit:

Jx

AK87xxx

Without the double, would any reasonable declarer play towards the jack in dummy? Certainly not at matchpoints.

[Fluffy]

I don't know what contrived means but I'd say this is the normal lay out everyone should expect, maybe ♣K also in dummy.


EDIT: Now I think of it, nobody would pass as East on this lay out it must not be true!

[ArtK78]

Well thought out comment.

Are you telling me, seriously, that you never made a contract on a trump endplay after a double like this one? I certainly have.

All I was demonstrating by the layouts that I provided was that the contract could easily be cold, with or without the double. And, not only can the double give away the position of the heart suit so that declarer can make the hand where he might have gone down without the double, but it is also possible that he will go down less with the double than without. If he would be down 2 without the double and down one with the double, then the double does not gain anything. But if he is making with the double and down one without the double, then the double is silly.

The responder can certainly have 2 entries opposite a strong hand. Assuming that declarer has a 7 card heart suit, and you are unlucky enough to lead declarer's void, he will be able to shorten himself down you your length and easily endplay you.

If that makes me a pseudo-expert, fine. But I think you are likely to gain very little from the double and you risk a lot.

[jdonn]

Art I don't deny they could make, like I said I don't think not-doubling is that bad. But your example is sort of ridiculous, you are assuming Axxxxxx for the 4♥ bid and two heart honors in the 0-7 dummy? That is not fair to assume or realistic. And like Justin said they should always make on that layout anyway.

There is about a 0.0000002% chance of a trump endplay after this auction.

[FrancesHinden]

Originally when I saw this problem I wouldn't have doubled, because I've been trained 'never' to double just to alert opponents to an unexpected layout. But I've been persuaded the double is right on this hand.

Of course it might make. The only question is whether your expected result from doubling- including the information you've given to declarer - is greater than by not doubling.

The newspaper columns are full of contracts that only make because of a double, when declarer takes some obscure line. That's why you listen to the auction: I agree with Jdonn & Jlall's arguments that a trump endplay is vanishingly unlikely ON THIS AUCTION.

[keylime]

At first I thought Justin was on some bad cheese or something, but now that I have read and reread his arguments, I now not certain about whether to lay low or to smack 'em around like I was.

For some reason I keep feeling that this is a Lauria-Versace type of a deal where they just shove to game on any notion...