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Unusual 2NT opening

Poll: What do you bid? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you bid?

  1. 3H (4 votes [13.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.79%

  2. 3NT (23 votes [79.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 79.31%

  3. 4C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 5C (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  5. other (1 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

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#1 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 03:51

You hold:
Scoring: IMP


Partner opens 2NT, showing 15-16HCP with 5+♣ and 5+♦. Your choices are:
3m = signoff
3♥ = relay (opener will bid 3♠ or 4♥ with a 3 card, 4m with a 5521 defining the singleton, or 3NT showing a 6511)
3NT = signoff
4m = invitational
5m = signoff

What do you bid?
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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 06:12

3NT.

That said, an idea that you might like is to use "Smolen" here.

3♥ "shows" spades. Two variations:

1. Not really. It more precisely asks if Opener has three spades.
2. Hard relay. Responder might next pass, bid 3NT, or something else (allows an escape to 3♠ on rare occasion). If "hard relay" version, may want to allow super-acceptances.

3♠ SHOWS hearts.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 06:18

Mark me down for 3NT:

1. We have a misfit, which is going to hurt our chances at 3N. Even so, with 27 HCPs between the two hands, we should have enough strength for game

2. The odds that partner has three hearts don't seem very good. (5% or so?). I'm guessing that asking about Hearts will do more harm (encouraging a Spade lead) than good.

3. Given the combined strength of the two hands, I'd prefer to try to make 3N rather than 5♣
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 06:38

Oh yeah -- another thing.

If you can get around the invitational idea (either systemically through a 3♥ relay or just quit trying to land on a dime), you might like another minors idea.

4♣ and 4♦ are game-forcing, establishing a fit. It is a demand that Opener ask for Aces, RKCB style.

The benefit is in void-location:

2NT-P-4♣-P-?

4♦ = RKCB
4M = Exclusion RKCB, void here

2NT-P-4♦-P-?

4♥ = RKCB
4♠ = Exclusion RKCB (void spades)
4NT = Exclusion RKCB (void hearts)
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 07:58

Obvious 3NT. Why is this a problem? :)
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#6 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 08:25

Can I complain about the response structure? We can't even check for a 5-3 heart fit without bypassing 3NT if partner is on his flattest shapes possible. I guess 3NT for me under these circumstances.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-October-14, 13:16

How could we ever not bid 3N here?
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#8 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 13:21

3N looks normal enough.
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#9 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 13:51

Believe it or not, I voted for 3NT.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-October-14, 15:52

I don't believe it. Pls give proof.
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#11 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2007-October-15, 23:54

How far from 6C? Where are my slam tries?
At worst push to 4NT.
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#12 User is offline   akhare 

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Posted 2007-October-16, 11:35

Hmm...can I explore whether pard has the magic hand that makes 6♣ and still bail out at a safe level?

I will go with the odds and just sign off in 3N...
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#13 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2007-October-16, 16:49

This is definitely an unusual 2NT opening. It seems strange to me, since with this many points you often need to make delicate decisions as to which game is best, or whether you have slam, and it's hard to do when you've preempted yourself so high. Number of points is also probably less useful than number of losers for this type of opening. The 2NT opening on a weak hand is different, since you're usually getting in the way of the opponents and are willing to sacrifice a lot of accuracy in constructive bidding in order to jam them with your weak shapely hand.

Anyways, it seems fairly likely to me that five of a minor will be the best game. Certainly if partner has a singleton spade, you might see for example:

x
Qx
AKxxx
KQJxx

x
x
KQJxxx
AKQxx

In each case 3NT is a bit iffy, whereas 5-minor (or on the first hand 4♥) is pretty cold. If you swap the majors on the first hand, 3NT is cold but 5-minor is still really good. If you swap the small spade to be a small heart on the second hand, then six-minor is really good.

I think I'd try the relay sequence, planning to:

(1) Play slam opposite a spade void.
(2) Play 4♥ opposite 1255.
(3) Play 5-minor opposite 11(65)
(4) Play 3NT opposite 3055
(5) Play 5-minor opposite 2155, while admitting that 3NT might've been better.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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