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What doe sthis bid mean? Negative DBL or Penalty Dbl?

#1 User is offline   ArcLight 

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Posted 2007-October-05, 20:50

1 P P 2
2 X

In modern bidding, is X Penalty or Negative?

The X hand held K Q J 9 7

========================
How do you bid this?
Scoring: IMP

You deal and open what?


A] What do you Open?

1 - 1
2 - 2NT
???

B] What do you bid now?
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#2 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-October-05, 20:52

Modern bidding it's probably takeout but I'm sure that a large percentage of experts still play this as penalty.
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#3 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2007-October-05, 21:44

I disagree. If you already had a chance to make a takeout double of a suit, double at your second opportunity is logically penalty.

On the second question, this is a 2 loser hand. As such, you might want to open it a strong 2C if your style permits. Alternatively, if you like to go with a one level opening, I'd go with 1C...2H, followed up with 3H (promising 5H/6C, C longer) and probably 4C over 3N showing 7/5 shape.
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#4 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-October-05, 22:29

Rob F, on Oct 5 2007, 10:44 PM, said:

I disagree. If you already had a chance to make a takeout double of a suit, double at your second opportunity is logically penalty.

This seems to make sense but then you always hold something like KJxx xx KQxxx Jx.
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#5 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2007-October-06, 08:25

1. This is one of those ones you just have to agree. I play it as take-out where we've discussed it.

2. I bid 3H over 2NT unless I'm frightened partner might pass, in which case I bid 4H over 2NT.
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#6 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-October-06, 10:44

Undiscussed, this double is penalty.
I'm used to playing it as penalty, but can see the arguments for playing it as t/o.

I open the 2nd hand 1. Agree with Frances to rebid 3 if sure this is forcing, else 4.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#7 User is offline   ralph23 

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Posted 2007-October-06, 10:47

1. Double must be penalty without prior agreement otherwise; I can see the argument for making it t/o but would never assume this without prior discussion.

2. 3.
Philosophy consists very largely of one philosopher arguing that other philosophers are all jackasses. He usually proves it, and I should add that he also usually proves that he is one himself. H.L. Mencken.
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#8 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2007-October-06, 12:58

1. Absent an agreement to the contrary, double is for penalties. What else would you do on a hand where you had a penalty double of 1 and were hoping that partner would reopen with a double?

2. [A] 1

[B] 3. If partner bids 3 or 3NT, I will bid 4.
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#9 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-October-06, 13:05

[quote name='ArtK78' date='Oct 6 2007, 01:58 PM'] 1. Absent an agreement to the contrary, double is for penalties. What else would you do on a hand where you had a penalty double of 1 and were hoping that partner would reopen with a double?
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-October-06, 14:48

1. Robson/Segal:

1 pass pass 2
2 dbl = take out

1 pass 1NT pass
2 dbl = penalty

Go figure.. lol.

2. I never have hands like this, so I'll open whatever crosses my mind.
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#11 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-October-06, 15:26

1H p 1N p 2H X doesn't seem close, partner hasn't shown any values so your hand that was originally a pass has not been converted into a t/o X
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