[Quantumcat]

Is it right that:

1) if attitude is known, then give count (if count known/irrelevant give suit preference). From doubleton, always high-low
2) if attitude not known, give attitude (either high or low from doubleton depending whether you think its a good idea to ruff 3rd round)

This is what I was taught and I am very confused whether people are saying this is wrong or not. Is it right?

[ralph23]

Is it right that:

1) if attitude is known, then give count (if count known/irrelevant give suit preference).

Yes, I think that is generally correct. I would state the "attitude" part of the rule more forcibly, as do Root & Kantar: If attitude can apply, then it does apply. It must be completely obvious to both partners that attitude cannot apply before the others can take effect.

At least, that's how they tend to state it. That version tends to keep it simpler. As I recall the Granovetters in A Switch in Time advocated the rule "Trick one is always attitude, period." That's kind of a funny rule but it does have some merit! (I may be mis-remembering, but the point is, people get confused over this and making a blanket rule does have some benefits)

From doubleton, always high-low

False. Very false.

There are two counter-examples in the recent posts. One, where playing hi-lo will deceive partner into leading right into the Bath Coup; and another, where you already have a natural trump trick and cannot gain by ruffing. Think of another: You (third hand) have no trumps ! So you won't be able to ruff !

Even if you were in one of those unusual situations where attitude did not apply at trick one, you wouldn't always hi-lo with 2, would you? Wouldn't you have to know whether count was relevant or not (you might be in a situation to give SP!)??

2) if attitude not known, give attitude (either high or low from doubleton depending whether you think its a good idea to ruff 3rd round)

True, generally, but notice this part of the rule conflicts with what you just said immediately above i.e.: "From doubleton, always high-low". We know the "always" part isn't true.

I would say for 2), "If attitude applies (and it usually does, by a large margin), give attitude! With a doubleton, decide on whether you want partner to continue the suit, or not. There may be reasons not to continue with a doub: e.g. keep partner out of the Bath Coup, or you will not gain by ruffing (maybe you already have a natural trump trick), or whatever. But you will be giving your opinion, whether you want to or not!"

The last sentence is important to remember: Once we've agreed to signal, we can't "undo" that agreement. 3rd hand's play to trick one (assuming it's not taking or trying to establish etc. a trick) is going to be construed as a signal, whether that is third hand's desire or not.

This post has been edited by ralph23: 2007-October-09, 07:45