[Rossoneri]

How do you define one?

HCP? Losing trick count? Other methods?

[awm]

It depends on what partner has shown.

Typically if you know you have a fit, LTC is a fairly good measure.

If you don't have a fit, or don't know yet whether you have a fit, then hcp tend to be better. In general it's good to be conservative if you may not have a fit, since it's usually easier to game force later once a fit is uncovered than it is to "un-game-force" if it's a misfit.

[ArtK78]

Rossoneri, on Oct 6 2007, 01:17 AM, said:

How do you define one?

HCP? Losing trick count? Other methods?

The answer to your question is - YES.

In notrump bidding, with a balanced hand facing a balanced hand, it typically takes 25-26 HCP to make 9 tricks. So high card points will determine whether a hand is game forcing or not.

In suit bidding, losing trick count is usually a better method of evaluation. I use modified losing trick count (MLTC) as set out in Rosenkranz's books on Romex. Assuming that a normal minimum opening bid is a 7 loser hand, a responder with 4 cover cards should force to game. If opener shows an above-average opening hand (6 losers), a 3 cover card responding hand is enough to force to game. Of course, this assumes a 10-trick game (4♥ or 4♠), and there must be a fit in which to play game.

Each bid taken by the partnership affects the usefulness of the high cards and helps to determine which cards cover losers and which do not. Also, the number of cover cards or the amount of HCP needed to force to game changes each time partner refines the strength of his hand by each successive bid.

[kenrexford]

I would define a "game-forcing hand" is a strange manner.

If I make a call that forces game, then I will have a hand strong enouugh that the prospect of playing in game in some reasonably predictable strain is less toubling than the difficulties I reasonably predict to face in the auction if I do not force game. That's the "minimum."

[Rossoneri]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: I meant game-forcing opening hands, i.e. you pick up a hand and you already want to force to game without knowing anything about partner's hand.

[Quantumcat]

What exactly is your question?

You look at your hand, decide if you want to be in game opposite whatever partner has, does it matter what method you use, aren't you kind of answering your own question (unless I misunderstand, probably I do)?

If you have a solid nine card suit and four little cards, if you have a balanced 25 count, if you have two solid suits and four little cards you might want to game force open ...

Do you mean, how might a computer define a game forcing opening hand? Cause it is pretty easy to recognise one when you see one.

[kenrexford]

Rossoneri, on Oct 7 2007, 01:11 AM, said:

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: I meant game-forcing opening hands, i.e. you pick up a hand and you already want to force to game without knowing anything about partner's hand.

I would define a "game-forcing hand" is a strange manner.

If I make a call that forces game, then I will have a hand strong enouugh that the prospect of playing in game in some reasonably predictable strain is less toubling than the difficulties I reasonably predict to face in the auction if I do not force game. That's the "minimum."

[gwnn]

Fred talked about the Yarborough test: can you make a reasonable game opposite xxx xxx xxx xxxx (the 4 card suit is somewhere)?

[helene_t]

Agree with Ken. If you have a very strong hand that would be impractical to open at the 1-level because you're afraid that it will be passed out and you miss game, and/or you cannot describe the hand adequately after having opened at the 1-level, consider a 2♣ opening. With insufficient O-D for 2♣ you can also consider a 6-opening.

[P_Marlowe]

Rossoneri, on Oct 6 2007, 01:17 AM, said:

How do you define one?

HCP? Losing trick count? Other methods?

Yes.

Ok, more explanation.

1) If you hold a certain number of HCP, say
24/25 or more, you clearly force to game,
it does not matter which method you use
2) If you hold a strong 1 one suiter in a mayor,
say AKQxxx in the suit with 4 add. tricks,
you also will force to game, typical shapes
will be 6-4 or better

In short, if you have a making game in your own
hand, you will force to game.
The only exception is, if you believe, that you will
face hige rebid problems.
This will be the case, if you hold a 2-suiter or a
3-suiter with approx. 22-23HCP
In this case you will open on the one level, accepting
a loss, because of mising game, in case it gets passed out

With kind regards
Marlowe