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and more bidding

#1 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-October-02, 21:03


Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 Pass  1♦    Pass  1♥
 Pass  1NT   Pass  2♠
 Pass  3♠    Pass  4♦
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

Ignore Norths bidding. Comments on souths bidding, 4♦ must be forcing here - agree?
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
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#2 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-October-02, 21:15

Yes
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#3 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2007-October-02, 21:23

4♦ is forcing all day long after your reverse. Opener should have bid NT rather than raising ♠ with three pieces. Having missed 3NT, opener should be happy to raise to 5♦.

The fewer hands without comp that you play in 4m, the better you will score at IMPs.

This hand shows the issues that occur when you don't play some kind of NMF or XYZ or checkback after a 1NT rebid. You invented a reverse with only 3♠ to force, and PD then missbid.

I don't know why more players (outside of BBO forum) don't play XYZ ? Then you can bid 2D and force to game here and find out most of what you want to know..ie that PD has only 2♥ and end up in 3NT or even ♦ (and 6 has play with good splits)

That being said, many do play NMF. But so many different versions exist. Perhaps someone will link you to a simple version.

.. neilkaz ..
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#4 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-October-02, 23:09

Thanks Im ok with nmf and checkback, I dont know if this partner played either. Im not sure about XYZ but I know it has been discussed on here before. I'll go hunting for it or if anyone has the thread please post it.
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 06:30

uber-forcing, I'd say ^^
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#6 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 07:02

Well, yes 4♦ is forcing, but the bad news is that it's a cuebid for spades.
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#7 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 07:46

Yes, so it is. :huh: It looks like my only option to save this was to bid 5♦
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
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#8 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 07:52

don't you play some sort of new minor forcing?
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#9 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 08:17

FrancesHinden, on Oct 3 2007, 08:02 AM, said:

Well, yes 4♦ is forcing, but the bad news is that it's a cuebid for spades.

I think I agree with this. It would have taken me a minute to puzzle this out at the table, though.

Is there no better way (shot of gadgets) to show GF in diamonds over 1NT? For example, what would 1♦-1♥-1NT-3♦ show?
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#10 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 08:37

matmat, on Oct 3 2007, 06:52 AM, said:

don't you play some sort of new minor forcing?

this is with a pick up partner, no agreements
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
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#11 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 10:56

jillybean2, on Oct 3 2007, 03:46 PM, said:

Yes, so it is. :) It looks like my only option to save this was to bid 5♦

Over 3♠?
I'd not try that if I were you - partner wouldn't know if this was natural, splinter - or help us all - Exclusion Blackwood....
Kind regards,
Harald
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#12 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 12:30

What would 3♦ show, instead of the 2♠?
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#13 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 13:35

jillybean2, on Oct 3 2007, 09:37 AM, said:

matmat, on Oct 3 2007, 06:52 AM, said:

don't you play some sort of new minor forcing?

this is with a pick up partner, no agreements

I would think if you are playing with a pickup partner, int or higher self rated then even with zero discussion(common) a bid of a new minor must be one round forcing at a minimum. one x...one y......1nt........2new minor.

IF partner did not mean it that way, you can always discuss it after the deal. :)
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 13:43

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 08:30 PM, said:

What would 3♦ show, instead of the 2♠?

3♦ would be invitational. I believe 2♠ is the best bid playing SAYC.
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#15 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 13:47

helene_t, on Oct 3 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 08:30 PM, said:

What would 3♦ show, instead of the 2♠?

3♦ would be invitational. I believe 2♠ is the best bid playing SAYC.

i thought NMF was part of sayc...
(note: i don't know sayc)
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#16 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 13:51

As someone who is trying to play as few gadgets as possible, NMF is not in SAYC.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#17 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-October-03, 15:23

Hi,

yes 4D is forcing, more precise it is a cue,
showing a top honor in diamond.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#18 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2007-October-04, 00:01

But I don't understand. Doesn't 2♠ show four cards? Or is it okay to lie, because partner's not going to be involved much in the decision making except for answering your questions.

(This is just in general) What if spades get set as the suit when there isn't actually a fit? You might not mind knowing about the king of spades then just bid 6 or 7 diamonds but what if you want to sign off in 5♦ and you can't, because that would be asking for the queen! Like, 4NT - 5♣ (1 or 4) - 5♦ (queen?/sign off)- 6♦ (no)....

Is there really absolutely no genuine forcing bid except to fake the spades to make a reverse? Surely this problem must come up a lot, and someone has solved it by now. Is that what NMF is? (what is it)
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#19 User is offline   vang 

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Posted 2007-October-04, 00:11

vuroth, on Oct 3 2007, 09:51 PM, said:

As someone who is trying to play as few gadgets as possible, NMF is not in SAYC.

i'm not sure if there is a definitive reference for SAYC, but cf http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Bidding-Say...y/dp/1897106033
NMF IS in SAYC.
http://vang.hq.ro/
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#20 User is offline   Quantumcat 

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Posted 2007-October-04, 00:23

What is it?? Is it a forcing bid after a rebid of 1NT?
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