[P_Marlowe]

microcap, on Oct 2 2007, 12:17 PM, said:

It may not matter, but the 1 diamond bid promises 4+, and if exactly 4, opener has 17+ in a balanced hand...

in this case 2D

With kind regards
Marlowe

[paulg]

It's very rare for me to disagree with Justin, but I prefer 2♦ here. For a start, it relieves me of the problem of what to call after a balancing double.

Paul

[Codo]

In the actual hand, 2 ♦ is fine, you have a fit or 3 NT is on and your hand is limited in on bid.

In standard bidding I had passed.

But I do not see the point that you may have no rebid after a reopening double from pd.
In this case I would bid 2 NT or what will this show? I think, we all play anysohl, but this is no situaton for it, isn´t it? 2 NT after a reopening should be natural and in this case weaker then a direct NT bid, which leaves exactly your hand for that bid, or?

[helene_t]

Codo, on Oct 4 2007, 01:06 PM, said:

But I do not see the point that you may have no rebid after a reopening double from pd.
In this case I would bid 2 NT or what will this show? I think, we all play anysohl, but this is no situaton for it, isn´t it?  2 NT after a reopening  should be natural and in this case weaker then a direct NT bid, which leaves exactly your hand for that bid, or?

I may be wrong but I think this is a controversial issue. Chthonic in his "Human Bridge Errors" argues that a reopening double should show extra values. In that case, 2N would be fine. But if the reopening double merely shows shortness in clubs, you would have to bid 2♦. And then a direct 2♦ becomes more attractive.

That raises the question what the diference is between a direct 2N and a delayed 2N. I'm not sure about that. I don't think it's standard to play Lebehnsohl here, although you can play 2N as scrambling when the unbid suits are the minors.

[Codo]

Sure after say 1 ♠ (2 ♥) pass (pass) X (pass) 2 NT shows the minors.
Even after
1 ♣ (2 ♦) pass (pass) X (pass) I won´t bid 2 NT "natural, because pd may well take it as Lebensohl.

But in this particular -and not uncommon- case, there 2 NT could be natural, because nothing else makes much sense for me.

[WrecksVee]

I am Rex, the other half of the misadventure.

Jay made a slighgt error in stating what 1♦ might show. We would open 4441 hands 1♦ if there is a ♣ or ♠ singleton. So it is know he has 4♥ if he has only 4♦ and an unbalanced hand.

It seems to me that this might not change the general discussion that favors 2♦. I still think I would double if I chose to bid. Partly that is because I think 2♦ is a one round force and as I did not double it would deny a four card major. I realize not everyone will think these are the right methods. It is not clear Jay and I are on the same page about that.

Thanks to everyone who replied. It is a help to Jay and me in tinkering with our agreements.

[mike777]

microcap, on Oct 2 2007, 12:02 PM, said:

As usual, a simple looking hand turns into disaster.....

IMPS TM, you hold the following white versus red:

Dealer: North Vul: E/W Scoring: IMP

♠ 875 ♥ J832 ♦ A87 ♣ QJ10

Partner opens 1♦, RHO overcalls 2♣ and it is your turn.

What do you do?

thanks in advance as always...

Pass


Have no idea why everyone thinks partner has 18 hcp and 4D.

Easy pass, no problem yet.

If partner reopens with X, I rebid 2D, np.

[cherdano]

awm, on Oct 2 2007, 05:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure why people feel such a strong need to play in diamonds holding 3334 shape. In a style where 1♦ shows 4+ but could be a weak notrump with 4♦, I would not have any desire to raise. Why should a 4-3 fit with no potential ruffs in the 3-card hand be the right spot? Honestly I don't feel much desire to bid at all with this hand -- partner will balance with the vast majority of hands that can make game or even provide a good partial.

I would pass playing standard but I would expect to miss a game not that infrequently. Of course partner will reopen with almost all hands that make game, but what do you do if he reopens with, say, a double? I guess we all would bid 2D, and partner will pass that with many hands that make game. If you bid 3D over his double, I would rather bid 2D right away.
The appeal of an immediate 2D bid is that it expresses your values while you can.