[Walddk]

Interestingly, both Jon (jonottawa) and Bob (geller) will get exactly what they want in a few hours, because ....

Our matches Saturday in Shanghai are as follows (Bermuda Bowl unless stated):

Round 19:
8 pm Friday Los Angeles, 11 pm Friday New York, 05.00 Saturday Paris, 4 am Saturday London, 1 pm Saturday Sydney

Japan v Poland, Italy v Australia, Netherlands v Canada (VC)

As far as rounds 20 and 21 (the last two) are concerned, we will not know our matches until about 30 minutes before start of play in those rounds. Understandably, the organisers want to have a look at the standings first before they decide.

Roland

[jonottawa]

Thx Roland!

[geller]

I'm glad Japan will be on BBO but unfortunately the open room commentary will be in English and the closed room commentary in Polish, so we won't be able to do any commentary in Japanese.

I hope Fred will be able to add the capability for multiple language commentary channels to BBO-TV, so that the same room could (say) have three commeent streams (English, Polish, and japanese in this case), from which readers could choose). Also, maybe someday the commentary can be made voice rather than text.

-Bob

[mrdct]

Personally I think there has been far too much coverage of the restricted events at the expense of the open event which has lead to several of the contending teams in the Bermuda Bowl getting little or no coverage on BBO. Looking at the BBO matches only up to the end of round 18 coverage has been:

Argentina 4
Australia 1
Brazil 7
Canada 2
China SMEG 6
Chinese Taipei 0
Egypt 4
India 0
Indonesia 5
Ireland 0
Italy 9
Japan 0
Netherlands 6
New Zealand 1
Norway 5
Pakistan 0
Poland 6
South Africa 3
Sweden 3
Trinidad & Tobago 0
USA 1 8
USA 2 6

[Zmud99]

you have to consider 2 other things :

1) we have to also broadcast Venice Cup and Seniors Bowl.....Shanghai is not only Bermuda Bowl event...

2) BBO is not the only broadcasting site here and we have to manage with other 2 site which have to pick some teams ( Japan team for example was pick up a lot in other site )

[DenisO]

Zmud99, on Oct 6 2007, 05:49 AM, said:

you have to consider 2 other things :

1) we have to also broadcast Venice Cup and Seniors Bowl.....Shanghai is not only Bermuda Bowl event...

Nevertheless, it doesn't look fair that six teams haven't had a show. I'd have thought that eveyone could have at least one broadcast. I know I'm disappointed that my team Ireland haven't been on - even though they could have done better - but they were silver medallists in the Euro Championships

[skjaeran]

The main issue should be to broadcast interesting matches. Not to broadcast all teams. The vugraph coverage isn't for the teams, rather for the audience.

I surely can understand that there are people watching from all countries playing, and all(most) would like to watch their compatriots. But that should be only a secondary issue IMHO.

[muggle]

DenisO, on Oct 6 2007, 01:07 AM, said:

Nevertheless, it doesn't look fair that six teams haven't had a show. I'd have thought that eveyone could have at least one broadcast. I know I'm disappointed that my team Ireland haven't been on - even though they could have done better - but they were silver medallists in the Euro Championships

Well, according to daily bulletin 2, an Ireland segment was scheduled for broadcast by one of the other internet vugraph sites for round 4. http://www.worldbridge.org/bulletin/07_2%2.../pdf/bul_02.pdf

WBF could make it much easier to see a centralized list of online vugraph schedules and information, instead of only from the pdf daily bulletins. They are online, we're all online.

[Walddk]

DenisO, on Oct 6 2007, 08:07 AM, said:

I'd have thought that eveyone could have at least one broadcast.

Excuse me, but this is the World Championships, not some social Sunday afternoon tournament in Outofreach. Heaven knows that I, on several occasions, have been critical of many of WBF's decisions, but this time I think they have done a fine job.

So has Hervé Lustman (Zmud99) on behalf of BBO.

No matter how hard you try, you can't please everyone. Let's face it and live with it. Constructive criticism is always welcome of course, but please bear in mind that you are getting all this for absolutely nothing.

No offence intended, Denis, Dave and Bob, but how much do peope think they can demand free of charge? Most of the whiners are those who prefer to lean back, expect miracles without doing anything, visibly huffed when they don't get it their way constantly.

And Bob, English is a must, so it's my job to toss a coin. Polish or Japanese in the other room? Japan lost, sorry, but I am in a no-win-situation. Either I must disappoint several hundred Japanese spectators, or perhaps even more Poles.

I have said it many times before but I don't mind saying it again. As long as I am in charge of coordinating vugraph presentations, I will not allow a mixture of languages in one room.

Roland

[geller]

Chill out and get some rest, Roland. You've been working too hard.

Quote

And Bob, English is a must, so it's my job to toss a coin. Polish or Japanese in the other room? Japan lost, sorry, but I am in a no-win-situation. Either I must disappoint several hundred Japanese spectators, or perhaps even more Poles

have said it many times before but I don't mind saying it again. As long as I am in charge of coordinating vugraph presentations, I will not allow a mixture of languages in one room.

This seems like a solvable problem. Major sporting events, like the finals of the world cup of football (soccer) are broadcast simultaneously in multiple languages. Hopefully in the near future BBO will also support text stream commentary in multiple langueages, and the viewer could click on the language of his/her choice. I don't fully understand the technical issues, but each text message could be preceded by a language identifier and the client (or on line platform) could be set to display only the language chosen by the user (which could be changed at any time.) Until this can be done I agree completely with Roland that languages shouldn't be mixed.

-Bob

[jonottawa]

It seems like BBO already has the technology to allow multiple languages (while each user would only see the language of his/her choice.) Members of various 'clubs' already get broadcasts targeted specifically at them. (Bella's Ball, for instance.) It wouldn't seem that onerous to give users the option of joining say, the Japanese club, and they would 'hear' the broadcast in Japanese. Not a perfect solution, but it uses what BBO already has.

Alternatively (more complicated, more expensive, but also more seamless,) you already have ignore chat from enemies, ignore chat from lobby, etc. Couldn't you create a similar category based on language? Each person could perhaps self-identify their language (with English being the default and with multiple selections being possible) and would not see anything typed by someone who self-identifies as a different language (except when seated at a table with/against them or when pmed by them.)

This really isn't my issue (since I speak English) but I thought I'd throw those ideas out there. I'm sure they're not particularly original.

From what I've read, constructive criticism (that 'always welcome' thing) is what's been offered. I'm not sure the 'huffy, do-nothing whiners who expect miracles and demand everything' (paraphrasing) charge is warranted. But perhaps there's history there that I'm unaware of.

I think if you agree with Harald that vugraph coverage is for the audience (and I do) then you do indeed make all reasonable efforts to broadcast each team at least once. I have zero interest in seeing India, or Ireland, or Japan, or Pakistan, or Trinidad and Tobago play. But I suspect that natives of those countries do. I very much wanted to see the Canadians (who generally stunk up the Bermuda Bowl) play on Vugraph once. I got to see that. In my opinion, it's only fair that other countries receive the same courtesy. I strongly suspect that the Vugraph audience would be no smaller and that the goodwill generated (India's on Vugraph, yay! or Japan's on Vugraph, yay!) would be much greater.

As to the 'interesting matches' argument, I think that first it's enormously difficult to predict which matches will be interesting (if by interesting, you mean close and generally well played.) Canada vs Italy in the last round was very interesting, for instance, but almost noone would have predicted that ahead of time. Second, I think it goes without saying that you'd schedule the Rodney Dangerfields' Vugraph appearances towards the beginning of the schedule so that come crunch time you're just showing the contenders.

[cherdano]

I don't want to whine but I find it a little surprising that only one match from the Bermuda Bowl is broadcasted in every session of the quarter final. No disrespect to the ladies and the seniors, but I don't think anyone would disagree that the BB has the highest level of play, it is the open event after all.

[han]

I was about to make the same comment as Arend just did, I'm a bit disappointed. I'd prefer to see three matches from the open event at any time, but I can imagine that some would like to see the women or seniors once in a while.

If we you have to broadcast matches from the lower level events, how about 6 open, 2 women and 1 senior matches per day? Please broadcast at least 2 BB matches at prime time.

edit: this is not meant as whining, only wanted to voice my opinion. The vugraph has been excellent as always and I'm really enjoying it.

[nikos59]

The problem is that three out of four BB matches were effectively
over after segment three, so interest would be minimal.

[Walddk]

nikos59, on Oct 8 2007, 10:05 AM, said:

The problem is that three out of four BB matches were effectively
over after segment three, so interest would be minimal.

Spot on, Nikos! What's the point of showing matches where one team is 100 or more IMPs ahead? So we haven't seen USA1, Norway and Netherlands much in the quarter-finals, but we will Tuesday and Wednesday.

Roland

[mrdct]

Ladies and seniors events are an embarrassment for a mind-sport such as bridge. I wonder if chess and go have these restricted events at their world championships?

Ladies and seniors are essentailly a money-spinner for national bridge associations where females and old people make up a majority of players where a bit of product differentiation helps maximise revenue.

[helene_t]

Right, and what's wrong with that? Without women's events there would not be many women's faces in the bridge magazines.

[Mbodell]

cherdano, on Oct 7 2007, 08:54 PM, said:

I don't want to whine but I find it a little surprising that only one match from the Bermuda Bowl is broadcasted in every session of the quarter final. No disrespect to the ladies and the seniors, but I don't think anyone would disagree that the BB has the highest level of play, it is the open event after all.

Funny, I wanted to see more of the women's and seniors.

I wanted to see SA-Italy in BB, Germany-Canada and USA2-France in the VC, and Brazil-Canada and France-USA1 in the SB.

Those were the 4 matches in the most doubt going into session 5 and session 6 and I think that made those matches the clear best choices. If anything I'd say I wanted to see more VC and SB coverage of the late QF, even if I was going to be mostly watching SA-Italy.

[hrothgar]

Quick question/comment:

When I was working VuGraph in Sydney a few years back, the VuGraph team had very little control over what events were going to be convered.

The team had its theories, but ultimately, the decision was made by event organizers. I am assuming that the same holds true in Shanghai...

[Walddk]

hrothgar, on Oct 8 2007, 02:16 PM, said:

Quick question/comment:

When I was working VuGraph in Sydney a few years back, the VuGraph team had very little control over what events were going to be convered.

The team had its theories, but ultimately, the decision was made by event organizers. I am assuming that the same holds true in Shanghai...

You are right an wrong at the same time. In Shanghai it works like this:

- 1. We must broadcast the official vugraph match at the venue.
- 2. We can choose one match for ourselves (certain restrictions though).
- 3. We must negotiate with other bridge sites regarding our third match.

Roland