[karlson]

white/white, matchpoints

♠xx ♥AJTxx ♦Tx ♣98xx

1♠-p-2♠-3♦
p-p-3♠-X-
p-?

[gwnn]

4♥ wtp?

[helene_t]

This is a take-out double in any partnership, even on the novice pages of our BF magazine, which apply the rule that as long as p hasn't made a positive bid, your doubles of a trump partscore are for t/o.

So 4♥.

[han]

A 4♥wtp for me too.

[Fluffy]

Hannie, on Sep 26 2007, 03:53 PM, said:

A 4♥wtp for me too.

But this is Match Points!

[pclayton]

4♥.

[han]

OK, how does one say that 4♥ is obvious at matchpoints?

[skjaeran]

The double is surely a t/o type double. But I don't think it shows the same for all.

To me this double typically shows a strong 2♦ overcall - a hand just too weak to double first and make a strong ♦ bid later (cue or jump as I play Equal Level Conversion). I'd say a 1-suiter is more common than a 3-suiter. On the bidding I'd expect partner to hold a doubleton ♠ more often than a singleton.
Partner typically has 2263 or 2362 and a 17-18(19) count.

Thus I think this is a hard decision. Pass, 4♦ and 4♥ is all possible. I won't pass, since the chance for +300 seems to remote. I'd reluctantly bid 4♥ as other posters due to the upside if I can make it, and there's a reasonable chance for that. At least when partner holds three of them.

[neilkaz]

4♥ for me with that nice suit.

[Free]

4♥

[karlson]

I thought it was pretty tough (as some noted, partner might not have classic takeout shape but just values), and ended up passing. Everyone I gave the hand to afterwards passed, which surprised me a bit.

Anyway, I still think it's close but bidding is probably right. I don't think they have 10 spades on this auction very often, so probably partner has two spades as well. That's bad from a total tricks point of view. Also he isn't a huge favorite to have 4 hearts, since he might have doubled the first time. All that seems to suggest about 17 trumps, and maybe fewer tricks. On the other hand, we do have these great hearts.

Anyway, partner had a ton of defense, 4h was rolling (probably making 6 in fact) and 3s was only down 2. So I guess the lesson is to bid. However both opponents were very light, which kind of screws up the total tricks evaluation (normally one would expect 9 and 8, but with us actually having 25 hcp or whatever, 10 and 7 is certainly more likely).

---

[gwnn]

It's not nearly close to pass or bid. Maybe it would be close with a 3442 10 count with no spade honors. But you have an offensive hand without spade tricks and partner promises short spades. So... ?

[skjaeran]

Deleted

[pclayton]

Karlson, you have the ideal attitude for a developing player.

You made a decision based on what you thought at the time (reasonable IMO) but have reconsidered your position after giving the hand to others whose opinions you respect.

[han]

Who was it that said, "take out your partner's takeout doubles"?

Spoiler

JOKING!

[Halo]

IMO most useful hand for partner to show is a 2353 top range 1NT overcall with no stop in opponents suit.

I feel sure he wont do it without 3 hearts so it's just another route to the 4H.

[cherdano]

I wouldn't think about total tricks on this hand, I would bid 4♥ because I think it will make.

With your partner's hand, I would have doubled 2♠, not bid 3♦. In fact I am surprised noone commented on that, it is not a close decision for me.

[han]

Agree Arend, I'm still amazed looking at the hand diagram.

I'd suggest that EW alert if they frequently open 1S with hands worth less than 8 HCP.

[skjaeran]

Hannie, on Sep 27 2007, 08:48 PM, said:

Who was it that said, "take out your partner's takeout doubles"?

Spoiler

JOKING!

The last two or three times I've seen it it was you......

(I didn't see your hidden line before I got this far.)