[helene_t]

Butler, love all, intermediate p, unknown opps but it is the A-line of one of the better clubs in Amsterdam. The opps bid uncontested (probably some SAYCish system, their CC was not that specific):

1♦-2♣
2♥-2♠* (probably FSF or natural)
3♠-4N
5N**-6♠

5N** showed 4-4-5-0 with an even number of keycards for spades.

6-842-A9764-T865

Would you have doubled 6♠? What's your lead?

The auctions cries for a trump lead, but that may help declarer trapping p's trump honor and besides declarer probably only needs to ruff one club so it seems pointless. A club lead does not appeal and I don't lead unsupported aces. So I lead a heart, automatically.

Scoring: IMP

---

It lost only 2 IMPs so apparently I was not the only one who refused to lead ♦A. But I think I should have found it. P must have four trumps on this auction so she often has trump trick. Even if declarer is void in diamonds, it may not cost, since shortening declarer's trumps may be necessary to promote a trump trick by p.

More generally, it strikes me that beginners and intermediate players lead unsupported aces very frequently, and many say that it is "obvious" to lead an ace against a slam. Personally, I may be of the other extreme, almost never leading unsupported aces, partly because I don't want to be associated with the futile ace-leaders (lol), partly because I know the relief I feel as a declarer when an opp leads an ace.

I think the reason for beginners for leading aces is the emotional impact of having to discard an ace that could have been cashed early on. IMHO, leading an unsupported ace is more likely to cost a trick, when the ace is needed as an entry for a trick that could have been set up with a different lead, or when leading the ace promotes the king in declarer's hand. But those cases often go unnoticed. How often has it cost you a trick not to cash an ace on time? You probably noticed all of those cases, including some illusory ones! How often has it gained you a trick not to lead an ace? Many, but you probably didn't notice all of them!

Do you think I should have lead ♦A? How terrible was it not to do so? How often would you lead an ace against slam? Do you do so more often than against game contracts? Do you agree that leading an ace against a slam is only good if you have a natural second trick, or would you also frequently lead an ace to give p a ruff? Or in the hope that they may be missing two aces, or missing the control in the suit? Or can it be sufficient reason that the auction suggests that they may be able to discard their loosers in the suit?

[ArcLight]

LHO has shown a strong hand with long Diamonds.
If you lead the Ace, you will likely establish that suit.
Maybe a Dime Ace lead establishes that suit for discards of heart losers.
However there is also the chance that pard has a singleton and you can continue the suit for a ruff.

Pard has 4 trumps so they may have trouble pulling trumps and doing some other things, such as ruffing a suit.

If you choose to lead the Dime Ace, I would continue in the hope that pard can ruff it.

The opps can't take any Club finesses, so unless they have the A K Q and J, they will need a club ruff or two.

Leading a spade can harm pards 4 card holding. With a J9 holding he may have a trick.

Any chance of the Diamond loser going away? That would require a discard on hearts. Only possible if the opps hearts are very strong.


So whats left? A heart?

OK - I lead a heart.

Helene, I think your reasoning was ok.
Even a reasonable play doesn't always work.

[Codo]

helene_t, on Sep 21 2007, 09:01 PM, said:

6-842-A9764-T865

Would you have doubled 6♠? What's your lead?

The auctions cries for a trump lead, but that may help declarer trapping p's trump honor and besides declarer probably only needs to ruff one club so it seems pointless. A club lead does not appeal and I don't lead unsupported aces. So I lead a heart, automatically.

I had never doubled and I lead a diamond or a heart, I think I will take the ace this time.

Quote

It lost only 2 IMPs so apparently I was not the only one who refused to lead ♦A. But I think I should have found it. P must have four trumps on this auction so she often has trump trick. Even if declarer is void in diamonds, it may not cost, since shortening declarer's trumps may be necessary to promote a trump trick by p.

I agree, that is why I had lead the ace. But it can of course cost badly.

Quote

...

Do you think I should have lead ♦A? How terrible was it not to do so? How often would you lead an ace against slam? Do you do so more often than against game contracts? Do you agree that leading an ace against a slam is only good if you have a natural second trick, or would you also frequently lead an ace to give p a ruff? Or in the hope that they may be missing two aces, or missing the control in the suit? Or can it be sufficient reason that the auction suggests that they may be able to discard their loosers in the suit?

We have a lot of people even very good ones, who claim that they normally lead aces against slams. Not because it is always good, but it is more often then not and they won´t regret it later if they did not cash out.
I don´t agree with them, I try to solve it for any single hand, but I must admit that my leads against slam are far from optimal.
For your questions: I nearly never lead unspoorted aces against game, but sometimes against slams. Never in the hope that they are missing two aces. The reasons are:
1. I hope pd may get a ruff in this suit. (In your example, if they had SHOWN their double fit in Diamonds and Spade, the lead would had been obvious.
2. Their bidding was not convincing, they did not check for a control in this suit.
3. It is our suit, so will cash at most one trick and hardly set up tricks for them.
4. I seem to have a sure trick elsewhere, which does not need to be developed.
5. They showed a long side suit, where possible loosers may disappear.
6. I dislike any other lead.

[han]

I have no idea where the comment "would you have doubled?" is coming from.

Whether or not to lead an ace against a small slam is a very difficult question. Since you gave all the hands I don't feel like thinking if I would have found the lead. Generally I'd say that the advice "do not lead unsupported aces" is not valid when leading against slams.

[cherdano]

Please give just your hand the next time, you will get a much more enlightening discussion.

I think there is a good case for the ♦A lead, it wins when partner has a diamond singleton, or when partner has a trump trick and declarers diamonds go on hearts. It loses when partner has ♥K behind dummy's ace (or otherwise a heart trick to be established), and dummy's hearts can't be pitched on declarer's clubs. But I don't know what I would have done without seeing all four hands.

[barmar]

I think the general advice to lead an Ace against a slam is most often appropriate in matchpoints. If the slam was competently and confidently bid, there's a good chance making against any reasonable (i.e. single dummy) defense. So the only way you can lose even more matchpoints is by giving them an overtrick due to going to sleep with the ace.

Although I've sometimes seen this totally backfire. If declarer has a void, you've just provided him the only way he could discard something on dummy's King, and that gives him the overtrick.

[helene_t]

Tx all. Yes, of course I should have waited with the diagram. Will do that next time.

[goobers]

Jlall, on Sep 21 2007, 01:26 PM, said:

OK I read some more of the thread, a few comments:

Against a slam of this nature don't think about how you may set up their tricks or blow a trick, think about how you will set up 2 tricks of your own. You need to figure out your best plan for 2 tricks and then act. This is totally on a hand by hand basis. On this hand I think it's clear that trying to give partner a ruff and, failing that, hoping that partner will have a trump trick is the best plan. However if you had xxx xxx Axx xxxx on this auction you should probably lead a heart with the plan in mind of setting up a heart trick before their diamonds are set up. Your second best choice would be a low diamond trying immediately for 2 tricks in diamonds if partner has the Q or K.

Obviously there is no exact science, you just need to think about how the play will go in your head and try whatever the best percentage thing is to do for 2 tricks.

Very instructive, thanks.