[jillybean]

Dealer: North Vul: NS Scoring: IMP

♠ A8 ♥ J6 ♦ JT9432 ♣ A96

West North East South

 -     1♠    Pass  2♦
 Pass  2NT   Pass  ?  


Your bid, are the ♦'s good enough for 3nt?

[bid_em_up]

jillybean2, on Sep 20 2007, 03:51 PM, said:

Your bid, are the ♦'s good enough for 3nt?

No.

Your hand wasn't even good enough for the 2D bid, imo, it certainly isn't good enough for 3N.

To be fair, this is somewhat dependent on whether you are playing sayc or 2/1 though. Its closer to a 2D bid in sayc, not even close in 2/1 though.

[jtfanclub]

jillybean2, on Sep 20 2007, 03:51 PM, said:

Your bid, are the ♦'s good enough for 3nt?

Actually, I don't think the diamonds are good enough for TWO no trump. I'll bid 3♦, which should have some hope.

[blackshoe]

1♠-1NT(F)-2♣-2♦-P

Playing 2/1, 1NT forcing is pretty much a given. Playing SAYC, it's not, but what else can you do?

If opener bids 2♠ over 1NT, you can pass. If he bids 2♥, you can bid 2♠. If he bids 2♦, now you can bid 3♦

[jillybean]

I dont play 2/1

[blackshoe]

Fair enough. I still think 1NT is right here.

[jillybean]

1nt never crossed my mind
I have 2 (undervalued) Aces and likely 4 tricks in ♦'s, partner is balanced and not dead minimum or would have bid 2♠. What is wrong with my thinking?
The ♥'s are terrible, but..

[blackshoe]

You have four tricks in diamonds if partner has some help. There's no guarantee of that. If he's counting on you for a decent suit, 3NT could be a disaster. You could have as few as 4 or 5 top tricks between you - and no time to set up 5 or 4 more.

It's true that the point count undervalues aces - but these aces have nothing with them.

I can visualize hands for partner where 3NT will make, but I think there are likely more hands he might have where it won't. And it's easier, usually, to recover from an underbid than an overbid.

I'd be happier to bid 3NT if the auction had gone 1S-1NT-2NT, BTW. It still might not make, but I think the chances are much better.

[Codo]

In SA or SEF I understand your 2 Diamond bid and share your reasoning.
For me this hand is the borderline, I may choose 1 NT but prefer 2 Diamond slightly.

For the latter bidding: This depends on the meaning of the 2 NT bid. There are two schools: One that use 2 Spade as the "weak hand" with 12-14 HCPS and no better call avaiable and 2 NT shows extras and is GF. (Like SEF). In this case bid 3 NT and be confident about the outcome.
And there is an old school where his 2 NT rebid showed 12-14 balanced. If your pd plays his 2 NT rebid this way, you have to pass.

I love the first way and I think that nowadays the majority plays it this way too. So I had always bid 3 NT without thinking too much about it.

Of course after 1 Spade 1 NT 2 NT this is even more easy, but this was not the question.

[helene_t]

I think this is a lousy hand and would have responded 1N unless playing Acol.

Now 3♦ if that is to play. If 2N is a GF I bid 3N.

[Gerben42]

3♦ seems clear, it shows minimum for your bid and long ♦. 2NT is forcing with a 6-card suit, btw.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

As Codo mentioned, the first important
question is, how strong is 2NT?

The 2nd question, can you pass 2NT?

If 2NT is 12-14 and you can pass, I would
pass, 3D maybe better, but this is not clear.

Assuming you cant pass, but 2NT still shows
12-14, I would say bid 3D, partner will bid 3NT
if he holds diamond honors.

Assuming you cant pass and 2NT shows 15-17,
meaning you are already in a gf seq., bid 3NT, the
diamond suit is not strong enough.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

Who has agreements like this?!! casual partner.

[han]

My bridge education severely lacks in SAYC-theory. I would have bid 1NT without realising that 2D could have been an option.

[SoTired]

3D. Not 3N. Not Pass.
One reason: partner has at most 3♥ and with your ♥Jx, you may have problems in any NT contract unless partner has a double heart stopper and 2 diam honors. You may lose 6 tricks before you can run the diam.

You only have 10HCP, which is not enough to raise 2N to 3N unless you can upgrade your hand because of your long suit. But your long suit is missing too many honors. A good rule of thumb is to upgrade your hand if your 5-card suit is headed by 4-7 HCP. Less than 4 HCP and the suit may not set up. More than 7 HCP and partner may have duplicate and wasted strength in your suit (meaning weakness elsewhere). For a 6-card suit, upgrade your hand if the suit is headed by 4+ HCP. Even if partner has wasted/duplicate strength, the 6th trick overcomes that.