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bid this 23 pt slam?

#1 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2007-September-17, 17:11

Scoring: MP


Searching for convincing auctions to this slam. (We got there on a somewhat stupid auction with some assistance from our opponents, trying to see if one can get there under more realistic circumstances and rational bids.)

After two passes, East opens 2♠.

1. dbl, or 4♦ = ♦+♥? (do most people play 4♦ F or NF?)

2. Say you double. what are reasonable auctions after LHO:
- bids 3♠?
- bids 4♠?
- psyches 2NT?
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#2 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-September-17, 17:16

I play 4D as forcing and woud bid it. North has of course great support and the doubleton diamond is also nice, but I think it is just not enough to bid more than 4H.

South has some extras but probably not enough to act over 4H.

So I regret to say that I would miss this slam playing with myself. Starting with a double would work out better perhaps.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#3 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2007-September-17, 17:30

I like double: this hand has plenty of defense if partner converts (AK, A, AK) and neither red suit is really strong enough to withstand a 5-2 fit. It's also easy to imagine clubs being the best place to play, and I prefer 4♦ to have better suits.

After west raises, I'd expect north to pass the hand back to south, who will certainly balance. Over 3♠ it's not clear whether to balance with another double or with 4♥; I think I'd prefer double for much the same reason I doubled initially. Over 4♠ it seems clear to balance with a double. Over 2NT, east will bid something and south's action depends a bit on this call, but I don't think south can be psyched into passing with this hand.

Over south's second double, north should bid hearts. If north is bidding 4♥, south is worth a slam try opposite the known four-card trump fit. There is some danger since north could be broke, but slam has play opposite some zero-counts with five hearts (xxx xxxxx xx xxx and 6♥ is ok). If north is bidding over 4♠, he may try 4NT (two places to play) and then correct 5♦ to 5♥. Since this shows length in both round suits as well as some shape or values (a 3-4-2-4 zero count should pass the second double), it's reasonable for south to take a shot at slam, hoping for either 5-5 in the round suits or 4-5 with a useful card or two.

You have to take some positions to reach the slam and I could certainly see ending up in a heart game, but it is possible to get there.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-September-17, 17:45

South overcalls 4♦, showing 5-5 reds and needing about two tricks to make game.

North bids 4♥, thinking how glad he is that he has those two tricks.

East or West does not leave well enough alone, and forces North or South to not be practical.
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#5 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-September-17, 19:11

Over 4D Leaping Michaels (forcing!) I think North is just about good enough to bid 5♥.

What is everyone's minimum for 4D? Obviously mine is higher than Ken's.
I wouldn't bid 4D on the given hand without ♣A. I guess with some duplication of values 5H might be too high, e.g. x AJTxx AKQxx Qx.

I think auctions where South forces to 5-level without North having showing values are unrealistic.
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#6 User is offline   karlson 

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Posted 2007-September-17, 19:30

I suppose I can give our auction:

2s-4d-4s-5h
p-6h

Sure, 6H was a bit of a guess, but I think once partner shows a real heart fit it must be odds on. Partner's actual hand is a pretty normal minimum I think.
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#7 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-September-17, 20:05

I would start with double. When it goes 3♠ p p I would double again, and I think over north's 4♥ bid I am then good enough for one further try, as I am guaranteed heart length opposite and thus have extremely few losers. No matter what that try is, north could well bid 6 with his excellent (in context) hand. This would be similar if LHO psyched 2NT. If LHO bid 4♠ it would be much harder and I think I wouldn't get there.

I don't care for 4♦ with such bad hearts and good clubs. Partner often has to bid 4♥ on a doubleton which should play very terribly, and he might even do that with six clubs. I think it might work well here (especially if it continues 4♠ 5♥ p) but that it's the wrong action in general.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#8 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2007-September-18, 01:04

I would start with a double and miss the slam without their help or serious overbidding by north.
If I had choosen 4 Diamond, slam is "easy" to reach as this shows a very strong hand, so pd with KQxx in heart will surely bid more then 4 ♥.
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#9 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-September-18, 03:54

Hi,

#1 4D, we play it as NF, but F is standard
#2 Pass

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#10 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2007-September-18, 03:56

I think 4♦ is clear. Finding slam is as good as impossible imo.
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#11 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2007-September-18, 05:58

Free, on Sep 18 2007, 04:56 PM, said:

I think 4♦ is clear. Finding slam is as good as impossible imo.

Agree with Frederick.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#12 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-September-18, 09:49

cherdano, on Sep 17 2007, 08:11 PM, said:

Over 4D Leaping Michaels (forcing!) I think North is just about good enough to bid 5♥.

I really don't think so.

Also, I'd like to start with a double now, but I think I still won't get to slam.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#13 User is offline   SchTsch 

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Posted 2007-September-24, 07:07

I would bid 4♦ and play 4♥ if I`m allowed.
It's not a shame to miss a good slam.
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