[PocasAlice]

Last week at our local club game, my P opened 1♣. RHO passed. And I passed because I had only 4 points. P told me to never pass a 1 club opening if RHO passes. She justifies this direction, say "I could have 18 points and only 3 clubs"

I'm an ole Goren rubber bridge player who is working hard learn SAYC and duplicate. My P is a long term duplicate player with many more master points than me.

But I'm uncomforable with her direction. It contradicts the many bridge books that I have read recently. It also seems that this will bring lots of ambiguity and risk to the bidding since she is essenally saying that the point count range for a 1 level response would be zero-to-10 points.

If opponents both pass and she has 18 points, is this situation so bad that we should introduce such ambiguity into our response to 1C openers?

Can anyone give me or point to a discussion of the pros and cons of treating 1♣ opening as forcing in the absence of an intervening bid?

[gwnn]

You are right, she is wrong.

If 1♣ is forcing, many many things change and duh, it will inevitably become some sort of a polish ♣ or fantunes system to become a consistent concept again. But those are LOTS of changes. Tell your pd that if she hates the auction 1♣-p-p-p (which is NOT the reason why people who don't like standard don't like standard), she should change to one of the aforementioned systems.

[ralph23]

PocasAlice, on Sep 8 2007, 07:17 PM, said:

Last week at our local club game, my P opened 1♣.  RHO passed.  And I passed because I had only 4 points.  P told me to never pass a 1 club opening if RHO passes.  She justifies this direction, say "I could have 18 points and only 3 clubs"

Your partner is wrong and you are right.

Can I guess that your partner is somewhat dogmatic and opinionated sometimes? I think it sounds a bit possible .... .... you have to manage these partners carefully sometimes!!

My suggestion is, don't take advice from "experts" like this, who tell you to bid on zero points just because they could have "short" clubs. But don't argue with them either; they are "never wrong" and you will just generate ill will. Instead, say "I really need to just learn mainstream ways right now. Let's follow a good book."

(Actually, partner is not limited to 18. 1♣ could be 19 easily, planning to jump to 2nt on rebid, or even 20 if unbalanced.)

You will find excellent examples of when to pass 1♣ natural (3+♣) openings in various bridge books; I suggest you and your partner jointly read Commonsense Bidding by Bill Root, and agree on deviations as you go chapter to chapter. But don't agree to foolishness like responding on zero points and 3♣. (now, with 7 clubs and zero points .... )

Audrey Grant also has a good beg/int series of books and tapes.

There are also good materials on the web, and you can find some for mutual use. Try to make it a mutual project and try to let partner discover that her kitchen-bridge idea is ..... er, not "mainstream."

PS Sometimes, good players will respond on 4 points, esp if an Ace. Or sometimes on 3, depending on shape, vul, table position etc etc. But this is beyond the scope of the question.

[han]

For a beginner it is fine to pass anytime you have 5 or fewer points. Later you learn that there are other hands where you might want to respond.

[ralph23]

There is an excellent resource on BBO, "Learn to Play Bridge" which is an interactive lesson set. Suggest you run through it and then do so with partner, and "agree" to play this way unless you make modifications. She will learn something too, believe me .... but don't dare tell her this !! Just say "You're better so you need to adapt to me" which is true, and she will learn by accident.

I checked and there are examples showing why it's wrong to bid with only 3 points here. So she'll get the message.

[jtfanclub]

PocasAlice, on Sep 8 2007, 06:17 PM, said:

Last week at our local club game, my P opened 1♣. RHO passed. And I passed because I had only 4 points. P told me to never pass a 1 club opening if RHO passes. She justifies this direction, say "I could have 18 points and only 3 clubs"

OK, so your partner has 18 hcp and only 3 clubs.

That means, after your bid, she's going to do one of these things:

1. Jump to 2NT.
2. Make a reverse that's forcing to the 3 level.
3. Jump to game, (1♣-1♥-4♥)

Do you seriously think any of these are going to be good results when you only have 4 hcp?

At least if you pass 1♣ there's a *chance* you can make 1 club. It's a whole lot easier to take 7 tricks in clubs across a bust then 8 tricks in no-trump.

[P_Marlowe]

PocasAlice, on Sep 8 2007, 06:17 PM, said:

Last week at our local club game, my P opened 1♣. RHO passed. And I passed because I had only 4 points. P told me to never pass a 1 club opening if RHO passes. She justifies this direction, say "I could have 18 points and only 3 clubs"

In this case you should suggest to your partner,
that the partnership switches to precision.

A 1C opener can be passed, and if you respond,
you should have a good reason, if you dont have
one, pass.

Holding +6HCP is a good reason, game is possible.
Holding 4/5HCP and both mayors is also a good
reason, you have a great chance to improve the
contract, and you may even reach game in a mayor.

With kind regards
Marlowe