[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

1♠ - (P) - ?

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Partner opens 1♠. You are playing a fairly vanilla 2/1. What's your bid and what's your plan?

[mike777]

ya 2c.

yes you can post hands where this loses.

[Codo]

I guess I have a spade fit, so 5 Club exclusion would not be my first coice.

I go with 2 ♣ intending to support spades later. And yes this is of course at least a gf. And no, I do not like 2 NT with hands like this.

[Dwingo]

Show Support with Support. Limit raise, whatever it is in your methods ( your flavour of bergen, etc).

This downside of bidding 2C - looking at your hand, there is a good chance your LHO is going to bump you with a 4D or 4H bid and then it will be very difficult to convince partner that you indeed have a 4 card S fit with your 4S bid.

[Walddk]

Dwingo, on Sep 18 2007, 10:56 AM, said:

Show Support with Support. Limit raise, whatever it is in your methods ( your flavour of bergen, etc).

A limit raise? Sorry, but I think it's poor judgement if you think 3♠ is the right spot should partner sign off. 2♣, 2NT and a red splinter are all reasonable. Some must support when they have four; my view is that 2♣ is the best description before I support spades.

Finally, I am not concerned about what LHO does regarding the red suits. I have nothing to be ashamed of when I bid 4♠ over his 4red.

Roland

[hrothgar]

Walddk, on Sep 18 2007, 12:11 PM, said:

Dwingo, on Sep 18 2007, 10:56 AM, said:

Show Support with Support. Limit raise, whatever it is in your methods ( your flavour of bergen, etc).

A limit raise? Sorry, but I think it's poor judgement if you think 3♠ is the right spot should partner sign off. 2♣, 2NT and a red splinter are all reasonable. Some must support when they have four; my view is that 2♣ is the best description before I support spades.

Finally, I am not concerned about what LHO does regarding the red suits. I have nothing to be ashamed of when I bid 4♠ over his 4red.

Roland

what he said

[ycos]

1♠- 2♣
any - i bid♠ at minimum level(2 or 3)

1♠-2NT( i like to play voids @ 4 level )
if partner bid 3♣-3♦
if partner bid 4♣-4♠

[P_Marlowe]

2C, followed by 3S, which should start
a slam auction.
I may reconsider, if partner plays a dead
man, e.g. he limits himself, saying he holds
a weak NT, in which case I would sign of
in 4S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Dwingo]

OK, I agree there is a problem if you play 3S as limit raise as it can get passed out.

That is not the case if you are playing Bergen raises. If partner retreats to 3S with a minimum, nothing prevents us from taking control and bidding further.


Unfortunately the only Game forcing 4 card raise in 2/1 is the Jacoby 2NT and I feel Jacoby2NT seems unsuitable for this hand. Splintering at 4D/4H seems OK, but which suit are you going to splinter in?

To avoid this, Bergen raises can come to you rescue.

[kenrexford]

2♣ for me. I'm not that concerned that partner might not read my spade length properly -- I might want to play this in clubs anyway.

[Codo]

Dwingo, on Sep 18 2007, 08:18 PM, said:

OK, I agree there is a problem if you play 3S as limit raise as it can get passed out.

That is not the case if you are playing Bergen raises. If partner retreats to 3S with a minimum, nothing prevents us from taking control and bidding further.


Unfortunately the only Game forcing 4 card raise in 2/1 is the Jacoby 2NT and I feel Jacoby2NT seems unsuitable for this hand. Splintering at 4D/4H seems OK, but which suit are you going to splinter in?

To avoid this, Bergen raises can come to you rescue.

I cannot disagree more.

Lets say you use a bergen raise and later overule pds 3 Spade descission. How can he evaluate his hand for slam bidding?

Or he bids 4 Spade, how how exactly do you show your slam interest?

So with your method you loose in each uncontested auction. And I see not much upside in competetive bidding too.

I still think that this is a clear GF hand.

[ochinko]

I am not surprised that in 2/1 most people will go through 2♣, but I still hate it as not descriptive enough. What if LHO blasts off to 5♦, and partner passes? 5♠ is easy but what if we miss a slam? What if partner doubles 5♦?

Since I have a great fit, 5 loser hand with concentrated values and a promising source of tricks in clubs, I bid 4♦ - splinter. I am aware this takes a lot of space but at least it sets the trump suit immediately, and when I RKCB over partner's 4♥ it will be clear for her that she should treat her ♠K and ♠Q as key cards.

[Free]

2♣ seems the best way to start imo

[Ant590]

I'm rather keen on a 3♣ inv+ fit jump

[keylime]

Good Lord gave me a decent 7 card suit with support. Wow, what did I do to deserve such favor.....2♣.

[mikeh]

Walddk, on Sep 18 2007, 04:11 AM, said:

Dwingo, on Sep 18 2007, 10:56 AM, said:

Show Support with Support. Limit raise, whatever it is in your methods ( your flavour of bergen, etc).

A limit raise? Sorry, but I think it's poor judgement if you think 3♠ is the right spot should partner sign off. 2♣, 2NT and a red splinter are all reasonable. Some must support when they have four; my view is that 2♣ is the best description before I support spades.

Finally, I am not concerned about what LHO does regarding the red suits. I have nothing to be ashamed of when I bid 4♠ over his 4red.

Roland

agreed

[SoTired]

Jacoby 2N followed by RKC unless opener shows club shortness. 2 aces + ♠KQ is all that is needed for slam. I will risk getting to a hopeless 5S, for the easy and simple bidding of slam or grand if it is available. I also don't want to make it easy for opps to get in with a red suit.

[han]

2♣.

[Walddk]

Dwingo, on Sep 18 2007, 01:18 PM, said:

OK, I agree there is a problem if you play 3S as limit raise as it can get passed out.

That is not the case if you are playing Bergen raises. If partner retreats to 3S with a minimum, nothing prevents us from taking control and bidding further.

Feel free to play your version of bridge, but if you play the real game, it makes absolutely no sense to tell your partner that you have a limit raise; then moments later you change your mind and bid on after he signs off.

Apparently you think it's a game forcing hand after all (you intend to bid on), so why start by showing it as limit? Find a game forcing bid with support for spades, or bid 2♣ whether it's game forcing or not.

Roland