[kenberg]

You open a modest 3=2=6=2 with 1D, partner bids 1H, you choose 2D instead of 1N, partner bids 2S. Any thoughts in general?

Here is the hand and the auction.

Scoring: MP

---

1D 1H
2D 2S
3H 4D
5D 5H
Pass


Obviously I was not enchanted with bidding 3H with two but I didn't want to totally deny the majors so what else. In retrospect I think over 4D maybe I should have bid 4H to discourage partner from seeking a heart slam. But of course we really want to be in 6D.

Thanks to the 3-3 heart split partner made 11 tricks (good result: Folks are not finding 6D and anyone in 4H has the option of playing safely for 4 after club, club ruff, two top hearts) but it's obviously not a great contract.


I am primarily interested in what I should have done differently but comments on the whole are of course welcome.

[zasanya]

I will bid 4♠ to indicate slam interest.

[kenberg]

zasanya, on Aug 25 2007, 08:39 AM, said:

I will bid 4♠ to indicate slam interest.

You mean S, after the 4D bid? You aren't worried that partner's next (maybe after an ace check) call will be 6H? Although my 3H seemed right at the time (looking for the best game) it now seems like it could cause trouble.

[zasanya]

P knows I have 6 card ♦.She should also know my ♥ support could be 2 cards

[kenberg]

OK. I'm uncertain partner would have judged it right over a 4S bid but I could have given him the opportunity. Both reaching 6D and staying out of 6H seem iffy to me. I am coming to think maybe I should just have just bid 6D over 4D. Partner appears to have three and is bidding strongly. I have key cards in the key suits. I know that any slam there is should (probably) be bid in diamonds. If partner bids 4NT over 4S I am not sure how many keycards I have since I am not sure what suit partner thinks is trump (would it be clear to you that diamonds are trump for the purposes of rkc, if 4NT is bid over 4S?). A jump to 6D over 4D is sort of ugly but it solves some problems.

I appreciate your thoughts even though I'm still uncertain. Thank you. In particular you seem to think the 3H call was reasonable. I'm glad to hear it.

[bid_em_up]

Personally, I think partner should splinter 4C over 2D. Now 6D is fairly easy to find.

[zasanya]

If P bids anything other than 5♦ I will bid 6♦

[pclayton]

With a few of my partners, we play 3♦ over 2♦ as forcing. I can see this auction:

1♦ - 1♥
2♦ - 3♦
3♠ - 4N
5♦ - 6♦

3♠ only promises a stop, since opener bypassed 1♠.

4♦ isn't forcing, its a bail out, so 4N is called for.

Not playing this, 2♠ is normal. South can raise to 3♠, although 3♥ on the Ax is fine.

At some point North needs to support.

Bid-Em's suggestion of 4♣ over 2♦ is possible and simplifies things but it bypasses what may be the only making contract of 3N.

[mikeh]

I think that you can reasonable chalk this up to a very tough deal for standard treatments.

However, I think that S's best call over 2♠ is 3♠.

S has denied 4 spades already, so 3♠ cannot be misunderstood: I hold 6+ diamonds, but can't bid 3♦ so won't have, say, KJ109xxx. I can't bid 2N, so lack a club stopper. 3♥ unambiguously, for me, promises 3 card support, so I won't bid that.

Now N's hand is huge: the stiff club opposite no stopper means that, almost assuredly, all of the partnership's hcp are working, and I think N can then drive to a diamond slam.

Over 3♠, 4♦. How one proceeds from there depends on methods.

[Free]

3♣ as 4th suit seems clear: stay low and let partner bid out his hand... I really don't see any reason to bid 3M now.

[kenberg]

Phil,

If 4NT is rkc for diamonds then N will not be real happy with a 5H response (presumably the King of diamonds and one major ace). On your auction, N is not even aware of the two card heart support. Of course he can pass and hope. With enough confidence in agreements I suppose 4S over 3S could be kickback. Maybe even 4H over 3S could be kickback although it is a little scary (to me, I always worry about these things). Maybe over 3S the best is 4C. This should be all S needs.

Bid_em,

I thought about the splinter. Mostly I am worried about my own bidding but it seems to me I agree that 4C over 2D might well have appealed to me if I were N. OTOH I did play a nice 5D contract recently for about zero matchpoints since everyone else was in NT for a better score. Give S the king of clubs, the ace of spades, the king sixth of diamonds and then ten tricks in NT is likely, slam is not. So I am not ready to quarrel much with 2S over 2D. A forcing 3D would be very nice but we do not play it as forcing. Or at least I don't think we do.

Ken

[kenberg]

mikeh, on Aug 25 2007, 01:32 PM, said:

I think that you can reasonable chalk this up to a very tough deal for standard treatments.

However, I think that S's best call over 2♠ is 3♠.

S has denied 4 spades already, so 3♠ cannot be misunderstood: I hold 6+ diamonds, but can't bid 3♦ so won't have, say, KJ109xxx. I can't bid 2N, so lack a club stopper. 3♥ unambiguously, for me, promises 3 card support, so I won't bid that.

Now N's hand is huge: the stiff club opposite no stopper means that, almost assuredly, all of the partnership's hcp are working, and I think N can then drive to a diamond slam.

Over 3♠, 4♦. How one proceeds from there depends on methods.

This I really like. Had I thought of 3S this way I would have done it, and I should have thought of it. Yes.

Added: At the time of 2S-3S, it is still possible (from South's view and depending on the N hand) that the bidding should end in 5D or 4H, perhaps even 4S (4S is an easy make here as long as declarer pitches a heart instead of ruffing when the second club is played). It will be difficult to sort this out. Still, I think 3S conveys the most information with the most accuracy.

[pclayton]

kenberg, on Aug 25 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

Phil,

If 4NT is rkc for diamonds then N will not be real happy with a 5H response (presumably the King of diamonds and one major ace). On your auction, N is not even aware of the two card heart support. Of course he can pass and hope. With enough confidence in agreements I suppose 4S over 3S could be kickback. Maybe even 4H over 3S could be kickback although it is a little scary (to me, I always worry about these things). Maybe over 3S the best is 4C. This should be all S needs.



Ken

Hi Ken:

If you are referring to my auction: 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♦ - 3♦ - 3♠....The chances of pard having only the ♠A and the ♦K is nil. Pard could not bid 3N, so there isn't much chance of club duplication. It's not impossible grant you. 4♥ would be kickback for me over 3♠ (responder can't have a strong heart suit here; he would have bid it over 2♦. Its logical if you think about it, and good partners should be on the same wavelength - even if you haven't specifically discussed this auction, and only have loose kickback rules.

This is always a risk when playing 4N key card for the minors.

[kenberg]

I agree 4H should sensibly be kickback. And I can hope that partner agrees. There are always fuzzy lines somewhere except maybe in the most thorough partnerships. Even at the top levels, watching vugraph shows, we see it happen. But yes, I agree, 4H should be kickback.

Speaking of fuzzy lines (well, I am speaking of them). I noticed that mikeh says 1D-1H-2D-2S-3H is unequivocally three card support. So I would have said, but then this hand arrived and I couldn't think of anything better than 3H. I like both his 3S call (which would not require previous agreement) and your forcing 3D (which would). Like Free I considered a fsf bid of 3C over 2S but I did not make it. Partner, at the time at least, seemed intent on the majors and so for me to make three minor suit bids seemed wrong when I have some tolerance for each of the majors. I am not so sure 3C would help. Partner would bid 3D but I would not know if it was true support or just an inability to bid 3N (4-5-2-2 with weak clubs). A round of bidding used with no one the wiser. Reese once said bridge is easier if partners bid what they have instead of what they don't have. But obviously I was a bit stuck so I am considering all views.

No one said bidding minor suit slams is easy. Thanks folks.